Velocity loss m1a scout vs full length barrel. Hvy bullets

[axxxel]

Hi!

Might get a chance to buy an m14 type rifle for hunting big game. The "worst" thing this set up will be up against is moose @250 yards.

What kind of velocity loss am I looking at with 165-180 grain bullets if I choose to go with the 18.5" barrel instead of the 22"?

 

[desidog]

M1A's don't like anything over 165-168gr -heavier and you might bend the op rod.

You can find the exact #'s in some of the many M1A threads on THR under the "search" feature on the upper green bar on this page. it's something like a 150fps loss, if i remember correctly.

As to hunting, once you take the M1A for a long walk, you might rethink your strategy. It's pretty heavy for a hunting rifle. Don't get me wrong, I love my Loaded, but to go after moose it would not be my choice.

 

[axxxel]

I heard about the heavy bullets issue a few months ago but never realised it was such a serious problem. Is there no deluxe op-rod or custom made gas valve that handles this issue?

The gun it will be replacing was no lightweight gun either. I think I'll eventually be getting some synthetic stocked .270w bolt action for that. I'm looking at the m14-type rifles mainly for fun. If it can just put enough umph downrange to be "ok" for moose then I can at least hunt with it when I feel like it, even though the other rifle will see most of the hunting.

Thanks

 

[ArmedBear]

It's not a moose gun one way or another, and neither is a .270, so quit worrying about the M1A's ballistics and buy it if you have the money and you are sure you want it. .308 has killed a moose, and .22-250 has killed an elk (I know someone who did it), but you don't BUY a .308 for moose, or a .22-250 for elk.

The Scout is a well-balanced rifle that feels good in the hands, despite its heft. But for any real hunting (i.e. on foot in the mountains), I'd go with a lighter rifle that shoots a round that's appropriate for the game. I got tired of hauling a 9 lb. 3 oz. scoped .30-06 up and down mountains, and replaced it a few months ago, except for certain uses like long range off sticks (it has a scope with drop ticks).

And for less than the price of an M1A, there sure are some wonderful hunting rifles out there...

 

[axxxel]

I'm with you on your comments on the rifle choices, ArmedBear. This would be far from my primary hunting rifle and definitely not my lightweight/long walk hunting rifle. The weight is concerning me but it's something about the steel and simplicity of the design that appeals to me.

Regarding the calibers however...

I've seen plenty of moose go down from a well placed 6.5x55. I don't know what the Idaho moose are like (I'm Swedish) but a premium bullet that expands and retains weight will mess up lungs real good even if it's coming out of "just" a .308. Can't see how a .270 rifle pointed in the right direction loaded with a high-SD bonded bullet wouldn't drop a moose well enough.

Thank you for your input.

 

[ArmedBear]

.270 is kind of a weird cartridge, bullets don't generally come in the heavy weights that your 6.5mm bullets do, and the rifles tend not to have the same twist rates. In theory, of course, they should work about the same.

Our moose are pretty big, and they live in dense forests, so you want them to go down quickly. We have a variety of ungulates here, with moose being the largest by far.

It's certainly true that a good bullet from a .308 will work on almost anything under ideal conditions. I just wouldn't be too worried about it. The Scout is just a nice rifle to have.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I carried my M1A Loaded with a 4.5-14 Nikon on it this last season and was fine. With a loaded 20 round mag in place, it's heavy, but not bad. Unless you carry as much gear into the forest as an Army Ranger, you should be fine.

I would definitely prefer the Scout. I loaded a 150 gr JSP that shot close to same POI as my FMJBT practice loads. For moose, I might step up to a super premium 165 gr bullet, like a Barnes, Swift A-Frame, or Nosler Partition.

 

[jmr40]

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

This is a good read on velocity in shorter barrels. I'd guess 50-75 fps total, maybe less. With premium bullets the 308 will do fine on Moose.

 

[bpl]

axxxel,

What range do you typically shoot moose? I would think the .308 would take a moose reliably as long as the range is not excessive. A 160gr 6.5 caliber bullet is going to penetrate much better than a 150 or 165gr 30 cal though. Choose a premium 30 cal bullet for moose, as MTMilitiaman pointed out. I'd go with a Barnes TSX in 165gr in the M1A.

I have read that the M1A/M14 tolerates heavier bullets weights fairly well compared to the M1 Garand due to some design changes. I'm no expert on the subject though.

Its too bad the M1A is so damn expensive forcing you to choose between the two. I'd like to own both!

 

[axxxel]

ArmedBear: I do not own a .270, I just read some numbers and assumed it would be like a 6.5x55 on steroids in any situation. I'll carefully check out the bullets availible before buying one.

Militiaman: The A-frame has been in my mind all along. Again: Never used it but the numbers are impressive and I've read a lot of good stuff (and seen pics of retrieved bullets) that suggests that the A-frame is a great bullet.

bpl: The range really depends. Never as far as 300 yards though. usually well below 200. If I'm somewhere where I can see the moose from 300 yards I'm either in the mountains where the wind won't let me shoot (I'm no sniper) or in the forest where I can easily close in before taking the shot.

Thank you all for your replies!

 

[ArmedBear]

It probably seems strange if you're in Sweden, but rifles in 6.5x55 is relatively hard to find in the US. Nevertheless, it has what might be the strongest cult following of any such round in this country. People have rifles re-barreled or custom-built for it, or they choose one of the few available brands even if they'd rather have a different rifle.

Some say that the 6.5x55 is the best all-around hunting round in the world, even. It just doesn't happen to be the ideal overal length for a US-standard short or long bolt action.