Vermont cited in Kansas carry battle
Date: Oct 13, 2003 6:39 PM
FYI, Alaska now does NOT require a permit to carry concealed.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/6991883.htm
AOL users click here
************************************************************
Posted on Sun, Oct. 12, 2003 story
UB_DESC
Gun advocates see window for change in 2004
BY STEVE PAINTER
Eagle Topeka bureau
TOPEKA - Gun rights advocates think 2004 will be the year
they can remove the state's ban on carrying concealed
weapons.
But they must overcome opposition from the governor's
office, a political feat they were unable to accomplish in
1997 and 1999.
Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, like her predecessor, Bill Graves,
opposes granting permits to most citizens for concealed
handguns and other weapons. She supports allowing retired
law enforcement officers to carry.
"That's where she stops," said her spokeswoman, Nicole
Corcoran.
Political momentum toward allowing concealed guns is
unmistakable.
Kansas is one of only five states that has no law allowing
concealed guns. Missouri's new law allowing concealed guns
had been scheduled to take effect Saturday until a judge
delayed it late Friday. Missouri lawmakers overrode Gov.
Bob Holden's veto of the law in September, even though
voters rejected a concealed gun law four years ago.
Missouri's action "helped tremendously in that it brought
the issue back before the public," said Wichita lawyer Phil
Journey, president of the Kansas State Rifle Association.
He's not convinced a concealed gun law would draw an
automatic veto from Sebelius.
"Depends on how the thing's drafted," he said. "She might
go for something. "
Thirty-four states allow residents to carry concealed
weapons after passing a background check and taking safety
training. Nine others have laws that gun rights advocates
say give police too much discretion to deny permits.
Vermont and Alaska state laws do not address concealed
weapons and therefore place no restrictions on gun owners.
Gun control advocates think they can buck the trend, though.
"Inevitably, if you pass a bill like this, there's going to
be a significant increase in handgun sales and, therefore,
firearms in public places," said Kelly Johnston, chairman of
Safe State Kansas, which opposes a law allowing concealed
weapons.
He noted that the last time Wichitans voted on guns, in
1994, 58 percent favored retaining the city's gun control
ordinance, which prohibits people who have been convicted of
crimes involving alcohol, drugs, hate crimes or domestic
violence from purchasing firearms.
Feedback from all sides
If past debates on the issue are any guide, Kansas lawmakers
will hear emotional pleas from advocates on both sides --
those who have used guns to defend themselves and those who
have lost family members to gun violence.
They also will hear conflicting research.
John Lott, a former University of Chicago professor now with
the American Enterprise Institute, became nationally known
in the 1990s for research he says shows that allowing
concealed weapons reduces crime.
He has published two versions of his book, "More Guns, Less
Crime," and recently authored a book titled "The Bias
Against Guns."
"There just haven't been bad experiences," he said in an
interview.
He cites Texas, where the state Department of Public Safety
reported that in 2001, only half of 1 percent of crimes
against people -- murder, assault, robbery and others --
were committed by people who had permits to carry guns.
"It's just very hard to find cases where permit holders do
anything wrong, particularly anything wrong with a gun,"
Lott said.
Among his most vocal academic critics is John Donohue, a
Stanford University law professor whose published critiques
of Lott's works cite errors in handling crime data.
"It's abundantly clear that there is no support for his
thesis," Donohue said. "It borders on fraud for anyone to
try to make the case that there is a drop in crime."
He said Lott's earlier work failed to account for the peak
and subsequent decline in violent crime related to the
advent of crack cocaine in the 1980s and said later updates
had coding errors.
The police opinion
Kansas law enforcement personnel have not been able to sort
out the issue for lawmakers.
Rank-and-file officers have tended to support concealed gun
permits, which in most states require a criminal xbackground
check and completion of a gun safety course.
"We don't feel like those people that will qualify will be a
danger to us," said Ken Gorman, legislative chairman for the
Fraternal Order of Police, Kansas State Lodge.
Now retired, Gorman said he saw many instances during his 28
years with the Topeka Police Department where citizens were
able to protect themselves because they were armed.
Police chiefs and other top-level law enforcement officers
have generally opposed gun permits. That remains the
official position of the Kansas Association of Chiefs of
Police, at least until the group meets this week to discuss
legislative policies.
Noting that "it's a pretty emotional issue," Salina Police
Chief James Hill declined to say how he personally felt
about a gun permit law.
"We respect and enforce the law," said Hill, who is at the
end of his term as president of the chiefs' association.
Wichita Police Chief Norman Williams and Sedgwick County
Sheriff Gary Steed did not return telephone messages about
the issue.
In 1999, the last time Kansas lawmakers considered a
concealed gun bill, a Wichita deputy chief testified against
the bill. It passed the House but died in a Senate
committee.
Many political observers said the Republican leadership
wanted to avoid the prospect of a second veto by then-Gov.
Graves.
Two years earlier, he vetoed a bill that cleared both
chambers. Lawmakers made no attempt to override his action.
The Legislature has seen plenty of turnover since 1999 and
is still considered to lean toward approval of concealed
weapons, though not necessarily by a veto-proof margin.
The 1999 effort was led by female lawmakers, which is likely
to be the case again in 2004, said Rep. Candy Ruff, a
Leavenworth Democrat whose district borders Missouri.
"It has to do with the Second Amendment, and women being
able to protect themselves," she said.
Opponents, however, say a concealed gun law is not a done
deal.
If the objective is to prevent crime, "We already have the
authority to carry weapons in the open, so I don't know why
the law needs to change," said Sen. John Vratil of Leawood,
chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee.
State law permits residents to carry a gun in plain sight or
to keep one in a gun rack in a vehicle.
Cities may impose tighter restrictions. For example, in
Wichita, it is illegal to carry a loaded firearm in public.
It is also unlawful to carry an air rifle, pellet gun or BB
gun.
A key issue for gun supporters is state pre-emption of local
gun laws. Without that, Journey said, gun owners would not
know whether they were violating the law as they traveled
through different towns.
"We've probably got 400 sets of rules in Kansas," he said.
Wichita and other cities have fought to preserve their own
laws.
As a state representative, Wichita Mayor Carlos Mayans
consistently voted to allow concealed guns and to pre-empt
local laws. He refused to say last week whether he still
supports that position.
Journey is optimistic the law will pass, despite last year's
election of a governor who is opposed. He first started
pushing the issue at the state level in the 1993 session.
"It's like chipping at a wall. Sooner or later, you're on
the other side," he said.
Date: Oct 13, 2003 6:39 PM
FYI, Alaska now does NOT require a permit to carry concealed.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/6991883.htm
AOL users click here
************************************************************
Posted on Sun, Oct. 12, 2003 story
UB_DESCGun advocates see window for change in 2004
BY STEVE PAINTER
Eagle Topeka bureau
TOPEKA - Gun rights advocates think 2004 will be the year
they can remove the state's ban on carrying concealed
weapons.
But they must overcome opposition from the governor's
office, a political feat they were unable to accomplish in
1997 and 1999.
Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, like her predecessor, Bill Graves,
opposes granting permits to most citizens for concealed
handguns and other weapons. She supports allowing retired
law enforcement officers to carry.
"That's where she stops," said her spokeswoman, Nicole
Corcoran.
Political momentum toward allowing concealed guns is
unmistakable.
Kansas is one of only five states that has no law allowing
concealed guns. Missouri's new law allowing concealed guns
had been scheduled to take effect Saturday until a judge
delayed it late Friday. Missouri lawmakers overrode Gov.
Bob Holden's veto of the law in September, even though
voters rejected a concealed gun law four years ago.
Missouri's action "helped tremendously in that it brought
the issue back before the public," said Wichita lawyer Phil
Journey, president of the Kansas State Rifle Association.
He's not convinced a concealed gun law would draw an
automatic veto from Sebelius.
"Depends on how the thing's drafted," he said. "She might
go for something. "
Thirty-four states allow residents to carry concealed
weapons after passing a background check and taking safety
training. Nine others have laws that gun rights advocates
say give police too much discretion to deny permits.
Vermont and Alaska state laws do not address concealed
weapons and therefore place no restrictions on gun owners.
Gun control advocates think they can buck the trend, though.
"Inevitably, if you pass a bill like this, there's going to
be a significant increase in handgun sales and, therefore,
firearms in public places," said Kelly Johnston, chairman of
Safe State Kansas, which opposes a law allowing concealed
weapons.
He noted that the last time Wichitans voted on guns, in
1994, 58 percent favored retaining the city's gun control
ordinance, which prohibits people who have been convicted of
crimes involving alcohol, drugs, hate crimes or domestic
violence from purchasing firearms.
Feedback from all sides
If past debates on the issue are any guide, Kansas lawmakers
will hear emotional pleas from advocates on both sides --
those who have used guns to defend themselves and those who
have lost family members to gun violence.
They also will hear conflicting research.
John Lott, a former University of Chicago professor now with
the American Enterprise Institute, became nationally known
in the 1990s for research he says shows that allowing
concealed weapons reduces crime.
He has published two versions of his book, "More Guns, Less
Crime," and recently authored a book titled "The Bias
Against Guns."
"There just haven't been bad experiences," he said in an
interview.
He cites Texas, where the state Department of Public Safety
reported that in 2001, only half of 1 percent of crimes
against people -- murder, assault, robbery and others --
were committed by people who had permits to carry guns.
"It's just very hard to find cases where permit holders do
anything wrong, particularly anything wrong with a gun,"
Lott said.
Among his most vocal academic critics is John Donohue, a
Stanford University law professor whose published critiques
of Lott's works cite errors in handling crime data.
"It's abundantly clear that there is no support for his
thesis," Donohue said. "It borders on fraud for anyone to
try to make the case that there is a drop in crime."
He said Lott's earlier work failed to account for the peak
and subsequent decline in violent crime related to the
advent of crack cocaine in the 1980s and said later updates
had coding errors.
The police opinion
Kansas law enforcement personnel have not been able to sort
out the issue for lawmakers.
Rank-and-file officers have tended to support concealed gun
permits, which in most states require a criminal xbackground
check and completion of a gun safety course.
"We don't feel like those people that will qualify will be a
danger to us," said Ken Gorman, legislative chairman for the
Fraternal Order of Police, Kansas State Lodge.
Now retired, Gorman said he saw many instances during his 28
years with the Topeka Police Department where citizens were
able to protect themselves because they were armed.
Police chiefs and other top-level law enforcement officers
have generally opposed gun permits. That remains the
official position of the Kansas Association of Chiefs of
Police, at least until the group meets this week to discuss
legislative policies.
Noting that "it's a pretty emotional issue," Salina Police
Chief James Hill declined to say how he personally felt
about a gun permit law.
"We respect and enforce the law," said Hill, who is at the
end of his term as president of the chiefs' association.
Wichita Police Chief Norman Williams and Sedgwick County
Sheriff Gary Steed did not return telephone messages about
the issue.
In 1999, the last time Kansas lawmakers considered a
concealed gun bill, a Wichita deputy chief testified against
the bill. It passed the House but died in a Senate
committee.
Many political observers said the Republican leadership
wanted to avoid the prospect of a second veto by then-Gov.
Graves.
Two years earlier, he vetoed a bill that cleared both
chambers. Lawmakers made no attempt to override his action.
The Legislature has seen plenty of turnover since 1999 and
is still considered to lean toward approval of concealed
weapons, though not necessarily by a veto-proof margin.
The 1999 effort was led by female lawmakers, which is likely
to be the case again in 2004, said Rep. Candy Ruff, a
Leavenworth Democrat whose district borders Missouri.
"It has to do with the Second Amendment, and women being
able to protect themselves," she said.
Opponents, however, say a concealed gun law is not a done
deal.
If the objective is to prevent crime, "We already have the
authority to carry weapons in the open, so I don't know why
the law needs to change," said Sen. John Vratil of Leawood,
chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee.
State law permits residents to carry a gun in plain sight or
to keep one in a gun rack in a vehicle.
Cities may impose tighter restrictions. For example, in
Wichita, it is illegal to carry a loaded firearm in public.
It is also unlawful to carry an air rifle, pellet gun or BB
gun.
A key issue for gun supporters is state pre-emption of local
gun laws. Without that, Journey said, gun owners would not
know whether they were violating the law as they traveled
through different towns.
"We've probably got 400 sets of rules in Kansas," he said.
Wichita and other cities have fought to preserve their own
laws.
As a state representative, Wichita Mayor Carlos Mayans
consistently voted to allow concealed guns and to pre-empt
local laws. He refused to say last week whether he still
supports that position.
Journey is optimistic the law will pass, despite last year's
election of a governor who is opposed. He first started
pushing the issue at the state level in the 1993 session.
"It's like chipping at a wall. Sooner or later, you're on
the other side," he said.
