Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Waveski, Apr 14, 2016.
Am I alone on that position?
The problem is, the Smith and Wesson company itself seems to have a long tradition of resurrecting names. As Coyote3855 said, the Bodyguard. There's also "Military and Police" and "Ladysmith." I'm sure there are others. So you kind of have two "traditions" colliding.
Maybe the folks at S&W think their honoring the original by doing this, but I kind if wish they wouldn't...in part because it leads to confusion. You think someone is talking about one thing when they're talking about another. Also, in some cases, the gun has just morphed into something other than it originally was over time. The original model 37 doesn't strike me as being the same gun as the most modern versions. Prob'ly time for a name change in that case.
Heck, it's their company and they can do what they want, but it's my money, and I'll spend it how I want.
"I bought a S&W Victory semi auto..."
Not that complex.
Thought I made that clear.
I dont keep up with all the latest guns. Despite being a very avid shooter for most of my life.
I have been confused more than once over the reuse of names including lately with this victory model thing. I actually thought they were coming out with a new re-make of the classic Victory Model revolver and thought that was a cool idea.
I agree. You would think in this age of electronic enlightenment, marketing studies, and consumer focus groups, S&W could come up with some new names for their guns instead of recycling the old ones.
Military & Police revolvers made during W.W.2 had a V prefix before the serial number hence the usage of the term "Victory." The term "Victory" is used by collectors and was not a official name used by S&W for them.
S&W collectors will correct me if I am wrong.
because it was the Victory model.
I don't like that they re-used the name either, but whatever, they can call it whatever they want.
That would be a backwards assumption. The cars of the 60's, by all measurable means, were total crap compared to what is available now. You might like the styling of the 60's land yachts but mechanically, electrically, mileage, power and in comfort and reliability and so many other ways they were junk compared to modern offerings.
The older guns were better fit than modern ones because the manufacturers have had to automate as much of the machining, finish and assembly process to stay competitive.
In early 1942 the machine that stamped the serial number on the butts of .38 Military & Police revolvers reached 999,999 and could go no higher. A decision was made to go back to number 1, with a letter prefix. They picked the letter "V" and associated it with the word "Victory." This was seen as a sort of uplift at a time when the future looked very dark, as we were getting badly beaten on all fronts.
In official records the government buyers and military services generally referred to them as S&W M&P Model, Model K or Revolvers, Caliber 38-200.
I would like to have one of the "victory" models myself. Were they the ones chambered in 38 S&W? That stuff is getting kind of hard to find. I had a friend years ago that had one, He couldn't find ammo so I made some out of shortened 38 SPL brass. Of course the cases swelled badly upon firing, but pressures were so low nothing was hurt. The bullets were undersized, but accuracy was good enough to hit a man sized target at fifteen yards. It would have never worked in an automatic, but revolvers DO have their advantages!
Yes and no.
The .38-200 model, which was nothing more nor less then a regular .38 Military & Police revolver with a standard 5" barrel (other lengths were also supplied), chambered in .38 S&W - which the British had adopted as their standard military handgun round. It was loaded with a 200 grain bullet, hence the name .38-200.
In Europe World War Two started in the Fall of 1939, and England was soon making deals to buy arms from U.S. makers. Smith & Wesson, who were for all practical purpose flat broke, accepted a contract to design and build a 9mm carbine, and to do this received a one million dollar advance payment.
Unfortunately while they made outstanding revolvers they knew little about semi-automatic carbines and what they came up with flopped. When the customer ask the company for their money back S&W found themselves between a rock and a hard place. Revolvers they had, but no money.
Great Britain was no better off, as Hitler was knocking at the door, so they quickly accepted a proposal from Smith & Wesson to pay off the past due bill with guns rather then cash, and the S&W .38-200 M&P revolver was born.
Between 1899 and 1942, some one million .38 M&P revolvers were made. By far the most common chambering was .38 Special. The .38-200 was in second place, although it was never cataloged for sale in the United States. Third in rankings was the .32 WCF (.32-20), and after that .22 Long Rifle. A handful were in .32 S&W Long.
When we entered the War after Pearl Harbor in December 1941 Smith & Wesson exclusively made K-frame revolvers. They were all serial numbered in the same series, and made either in .38 Special (to fill U.S. contracts) or .38 S&W (to fill contracts from the U.K and Commonwealth countries.)
Although it is is little known a substantial number of .38-200 revolvers were diverted and sent to arm domestic law enforcement departments and guards at defense plants in this country.
As time passes and more of the background history is discovered they have been attracting increasing interest by collectors Back in 1955 I thought that $17.00 was an outrageous price for such a clunker. Boy, did I blow that one!
I do remember that my friends gun was stamped, "Not English Made" Like the Limeys felt they were inferior and wanted everyone to know they didn't make them?
(you choose the word) THEM! English Snobs!
Thanks Old Fuff, for the history lesson.
The Brits always had what I consider to be a strange attitude about handgun stopping power. They liked slow moving heavy bullets for each caliber.
For example the .455 Eley pushed a 265 grain bullet at 650 fps.
Compare that to the American 255 gr. 45 Colt and 230 gr. 45 acp.
Their short-barrel big bore revolvers had a excellent reputation for stopping power and were popular in the Old West. General Custer had a pair given to him courtesy of British ambassadors on some special occasion. As a big born fan I would have probably chose to carry a self-cocking (double action) English Bulldog for self-defense in the 1800's if I could find ammunition for it.
On the other hand I fail to find the 200 gr. lead bullet in the 38 S&W at 650 fps. worthy for consideration as a manstopper. As history has shown a lighter bullet such as the 125 gr. JHP 38 Special is a effective round for self-defense while the .38 S&W has pasted on to obscurity.
Anybody know if that's true?
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