Video Appears to Show Beheading of American

[idd]

It just doesn't make sense to invade a country because of WMD's (none) and a connection to AQ (none) and then create a situation where AQ has a new home.

Indeed. And then to use the on-going failure of a policy to retroactively justify the policy.

772 dead US soldiers and counting......

I'm just wondering how many more of our serviceman will get killed before the country comes to its senses and leaves. <shrug> What the hell, I'm long past draft age.

 

[Michigander]

How do you justify the killing of innocents?

There is no justification. But both sides rationalize.

What is the death toll of Iraqis BTW? Anyone have a number? How many of those were innocent Iraqis? But, then again, some here feel there is no such thing as an innocent Muslim or maybe not even an innocent Iraqi for that matter (not all Iraqis are Muslim).

 

[Gordon Fink]

The veneer of civilization is so very thin. This is a fact easily forgotten in happier times. It’s ironically fitting that I should be reminded of it at a place called the High Road.

~G. Fink

 

[nualle]

So this is what feud feels like.

 

[4570Rick]

Leatherneck

The reason our hostage got beheaded: the Islamist Extremists are animals.
The reason it got put on TV: CBS.

BINGO

In fact, those abusive personnel should have Berg's death on their consciences. Maybe this bunch of terrorists would have killed Berg anyway, but thanks to the Military Perverts in charge of that prison, they had an "excuse" for doing it right now that will seem valid in the eyes of their countrymen.

Are you kidding? One wrong is NEVER justified by another.

The US gov tortures and kills captured enemies.

Do you mean we are torturing captured enemy personel to death? Why wasn't I notified of this?

How do we become "ruthless enough" to win this fight without turning into them? Do we even have the stomach for it? I do.

Most people don't want to think about what it will take to break the will of a people who live with the mind set of 14th century barbarians.

but beheadings on film are not precedented, are they?

This brutality is very common in that part of the world. As for putting it on film, 25 or so years ago, I saw an 8mm film of the stoning (No less violent than beheading) of a 14 year old girl. Her crime was being raped.

What you whippersnappers out there are experiencing is the Watergate circle jerk. Its taken 30 years but the media is at it again. They smell blood and sense the chance to pull down a president. Meanwhile we've completely forgotten why we are there and we've forgotten about our troops.

BINGO again

 

[bluecowdawg]

***?

when the "humiliation" pictures of the iraqi pow's first came out on the news last week ,all i heard immediatly from the media and our own gov. was how we were humiliating and embarrasing these iraqi's. i didnt see any one getting tortured or hurt or mistreated in any way that would physicaly harm them in any way. and how the gov. was extremely angry and appolagetic for this "behavior" and how they will get to the bottom of this.why dont i hear any outrage from our pu$$ya$$,kissa$$,know better than me& you GOVERNMENT about this civillian, not even a soldier, gettin murdered the way he did. maybe they should leave these6 scapegoat low level soldiers alone to do their job, and get to the bottom of the evil bastards that are killing not just our citizens and soldiers, but the citizens and soldiers of other nations.i dont understand why our gov. is so concerned and politicaly correct about the sensitivity and feelings of these people. this may be totally out of line but i think we should just blow up the whole damn country over there. kill'em all,after all thats what they live ,or should i say die for anyway,to kill Americans, Isrialies,Spanish,the British and anyone else that does not agree with their belief's , yes i said all of 'em men women and children, they raise them to hate Americans and teach them how to kill as many as possible with their "HOMICIDE BOMBERS"

:banghead: :banghead:

 

[Mr. Clark]

We shouldn't hold back for fear of killing innocents. That doesn't mean we carpet bomb cities. It just means that we do what we have to do to destroy our enemy's will and ability to wage this war. We don't target civilians, and we shouldn't bomb an apartment building to take out one guy, but some civilians will die in this war, and the moral responsibility for those deaths falls at the feet of the terrorists and those that support them - and nowhere else.

For the record I was against invading Iraq as well. I thought it should have been Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria, and then, assuming it was still necessary, Iraq. No occupation. No rebuilding. Just destroy their will and ability to wage and fund a war of terror and go home. Repeat as necessary. Although, if done right, it probably won’t be.

I’m all for staying frosty.

---

"Beware the fury of a patient man" - John Dryden

"Here's the truth, which you know in your heads and hearts already: Ineffective, unfocused violence leads to more violence. Limp, panicky, half-measures lead to more violence. However, complete, fully-thought-through, professional, well-executed violence never leads to more violence because, you see, afterwards, the other guys are all dead." –Larry Miller

 

[bluecowdawg]

OH YEAH

one more thang, after this is all done,spending billions of $$$$$ on this war, then we will be forced by our gov to spend billions on rebuilding this F'ing $hithole waist land for a bunch of people that dont want our help in the first place.


ok i think i'm done for now, and yes i do feel better thank you

 

[RealGun]

BTW, that happened before the pics of the mistreatment of prisoners. - Thumper

Thumper, I am unable to substantiate that. The body was found last weekend. The story is told as if the events were sequential, a case of retaliation. Got any references otherwise? Seems to me that it is an important point.

Washington Post today:

"U.S. officials said they could not verify the authenticity of the tape, but his family confirmed that they had been told Berg had been decapitated and that his body had been found on a highway overpass outside Baghdad last weekend."

 

[Thumper]

Please reread my post. I'm referring to the incident in which Daniel Pearl had his head sawed off.

Check THAT video.

 

[Michigander]

kill'em all,after all thats what they live ,or should i say die for anyway,to kill Americans, Isrialies,Spanish,the British and anyone else that does not agree with their belief's , yes i said all of 'em men women and children, they raise them to hate Americans and teach them how to kill as many as possible with their "HOMICIDE BOMBERS"

I noticed you did not include Brazil, France, Germany, etc. even though they do not agree with their beliefs. What is the link between Spain, the US, Britain and Israel then?

 

[Lone_Gunman]

we will be forced by our gov to spend billions on rebuilding this F'ing $hithole waist land

Yep, it looks like this quote is an example of why we should be spending the money on grammar schools here instead.

I think your point would be better made with less profanity and better spelling.

 

[greyhound]

I'm gonna say what no one else has:

When Daniel Pearl was murdered, he was forced to say "I am a Jew".

The last name "Berg" sounds like it COULD be someone of the Jewish faith.

Could there be a connection in that the two Americans MIGHT be Jewish?

i.e. non-Jewish American hostages get released, those who are Jews get beheaded.

(I have no proof of that, yet I can't stop wondering).

 

[CannibalCrowley]

fix, Thumper, and others
Here's how I came to my assertion (which I've learned is shared by others);
Both Islamist Extremists and Christian Fundamentalists:
have been linked to terrorist acts.
see their interpretation as the “true†form of their religion.
believe their religion should be incorporated into government.
insist that others live by the tenets of their religion.
are primarily motivated by righteousness.
are highly intolerant to those who hold opposing beliefs.
have a history of utilizing brutal punishments for violating their religious ideals.

Mr.Clark

We shouldn't hold back for fear of killing innocents. That doesn't mean we carpet bomb cities. It just means that we do what we have to do to destroy our enemy's will and ability to wage this war.

If you ask them I’m sure their stance would be that they’re just doing what they “have to do to destroy our enemy's will and ability to wage this war.â€

 

[pax]

Moderator Note

Quick reminder ~

THR exists to further a particular agenda: that of responsible firearms ownership for as many people as possible. In view of the fact that our members are atheist, Muslim, Catholic, fundamentalist Christian, agnostic, Buddhist, protestant, Mormon, JW, and pagan -- it would be really a bad idea for the moderators to allow anyone to get away with slamming anyone else's religion as religion (or with slamming anyone's lack of religion, for that matter).

Please don't take this thread there, or it will be closed.

pax
(edited to fix a couple of typos -- pax)

 

[Antlurz]

Greyhound...

I'm gonna say what no one else has:

Interesting idea. Very possibly valid.

Ron

 

[Shalako]

If you ask them I’m sure their stance would be that they’re just doing what they “have to do to destroy our enemy's will and ability to wage this war.â€

So what are you trying to say? Support the underdog? It sounds like a version of the old saying, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

Pal, it is ultimately going to be US or THEM. Which side are you on? You can't say neither. I also imagine that many decent minded muslim people would pick my side over that of the islamo-fascist murderers.

 

[Antlurz]

Shalako...

I also imagine that many decent minded muslim people would pick my side over that of the islamo-fascist murders.

If only they would say so outloud. It would be a LOT easier to refrain from lumping everyone (unfairly) together. Till then, the waters will never be calm..

They could make their lives so much simpler if only they would. By NOT doing so, one is forced to wonder where their allegiances really lie..

Ron

 

[HankL]

If the network news put the entire beheading video on the prime time news as much as they show the photos of the reservist from WV, the U.S. citizenry might come to the mindset of what it will take to win this war.
Beheading a person with a sword or axe is a form of execution. Taking living person's head off with a knife is barbaric. A war has been declaired on America, we are not fighting a "police action". America has not been at war since the end of WW II. I'm not sure if America has the will to pay the price of winning a war anymore but if we don't the war will come to our shores full time. The U.S. had the luxury of fighting WW 1 , WW 2, and the police actions since offshore. If we wait the war will be right here.

The entire American public needs to make up it's mind that we are all in the same barrel and we are at war with a formidable enemy which I, for now lump all together.

 

[Shalako]

Who here thinks all these hostilities will just end if America packs it up in Iraq and goes home?

Wasn't that where we were when the WTC, Cole, both U.S. Embassies, and the Marine barracks all got bombed? We could retreat and live in total isolation and the islamo-fascists would still pursue us till the day we are all converted or dead.

I would like to hear one of the debate's more peaceful folks' outlook for what the world will look like in 10 years if America just retreated and hid out at home. Anyone?

 

[Braz]

Another beheading on camera

Once again, the free world gets a inside glimpse of criminal clerics vividly demonstrating the difference between right and wrong.

Was Nick a murderer who deserved to be executed?

Our team screwed up by filming themselves using inmates as toys. The criminal clerics screwed up by filming the killing of a non-combatant. Sometimes it takes video to remind us how these criminals view right from wrong. They saw this as a glorious deed. We are disgusted by our team's treatment of the prisoners. Simple really.

I have no problem with choosing an uncooperative Iraq as a battleground against criminal clerics. The secular nature of Saddam's regime has helped us get a foothold for freedom in the cleric's backyard. It is no wonder they are flooding in from all sides to halt this affront to their power. Allah forbid, women could escape from their body bags and go to school?! Ayiiii!

Saddam was stashing over a billion dollars a month despite sanctions. Those dollars weren't going to the poor people of Iraq. I need no 'proof' of Al Qaeda receiving this cash to finance WMDs that will be used on us and Israel. Saddam would have mended a lot of fences by providing that money to the criminals. He was caught trying to assassinate our president. He has committed environmental terrorism without regard to how many people would suffer from poisoning. Obviously he would have enjoyed helping criminals kill hundreds of thousands of free Americans and Israelis.

Watch this video if you have trouble understanding what we are doing in Iraq. It puts things in clear perspective. Freedom vs Tyranny.

 

[Leatherness]

Jeez Louise! It's time to kick ass and not take names!!!!

 

[Mr. Clark]

If you ask them I’m sure their stance would be that they’re just doing what they “have to do to destroy our enemy's will and ability to wage this war.â€

If you ask them, I'm sure they will say a lot of things that don't bear any resemblance to reality. But there is no need to ask them, they say that every chance they get.

Events don't happen in a vacuum; context is important.

An old example:
You have a recommendation from two different people to buy gold. One person is a financial advisor who thinks that the price of gold will go up and wants you to put all of your money into gold so you can make a hefty profit. So, he tells you to buy gold.

The second person is a socialist who thinks that that wealth and profit is bad and that the price of gold will go down and wants you to put all of your money in gold so you will lose your shirt. So, he tells you to buy gold.

They are not saying the same thing - even though they both say "Buy Gold!"

 

[Michigander]

Who here thinks all these hostilities will just end if America packs it up in Iraq and goes home?

Of course not. It will take a lot more than that. As long as we keep selling WMD's to Muslim nations to use against other Muslim nations/peoples, we will be despised. As long as we remove democratically elected leaders and install puppet regimes who happen to be ruthless dictators, we will be hunted. As long as we insist on enforcing UN resolutions agains Mulsim nations and totally ignore UN resolutions against Israel, we will be hated. As long as we continue to lie (WMD's, Saddam/AQ connection) boldly in the face of the world we will gain no sympathy.

Ah, the list goes on and on and on...

 

[HankL]

Mr. Clark, An easier example that most folks may have some knowledge of is what the U.S. did to make an example of the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The U.S. made a small example of what it's powers could be but at a huge cost to the U.S. citizen and the people of Japan.

The prelude to this was a simple well executed attack on a U.S. installation well offshore of our west coast. We have endured recently a simple but well executed attack to our east coast and can expect more.