Video of internal handgun op. for Non blowbacks?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
9,392
Location
The Mid-South.
Please excuse my ignorance, but I can't remember watching any sort of "breakaway" animation which contrasts with the very simple ops of my Sauer 38h, Sig 232, Makarovs, CZ-82 and P-83 (Polish): all are blowbacks.

Most other semi-autos seem to be designated as tilting barrel, if this clarifies my impressions. Thanks for any references.
 
Those are good but there are errors. The first automation pic shows the barrel of a 1911 only beginning to move after the bullet leaves the barrel; in fact the barrel and slide, locked together, begin to move back at the same instant the bullet begins to move forward. The barrel/slide unit moves in response to the bullet movement, not in response to gas pressure as stated.

The R51 sequence is correct but fails to demonstrate how the breechblock kicks the slide back and gives it the momentum to pull the breechblock upward and draw it back as the slide moves back.

Jim
 
"The R51 sequence is correct but fails to demonstrate how the breechblock kicks the slide back and gives it the momentum to pull the breechblock upward and draw it back as the slide moves back."
They both initially recoil together as a unit, before the block is halted. That's the official Remington animation, so I suspect it's accurate (if only their machining was...)

"The slide does not begin to move till the bullet leaves the barrel. The barrel does not begin to drop till the bullet leaves the barrel. Locked breech."

Criminy. We go through this 'debate' on the forum at least once a fortnight. By what mechanism of physics would the barrel/slide breech assembly not recoil some tiny amount as the bullet translates? I think we found through calculations it was like .03" or something tiny like that, but was reached so quickly that the slide had all the momentum it needed to cycle.

"If it were otherwise accuracy would not be dependable."
If you run the numbers, that small initial deflection translates to thousandths of an inch of change to the barrel orientation, and is also very predictable/repeatable. Probably contributes to different POI for different loads, but only a little.

Video 1 is too fast for this purpose
Video 2 clearly shows the barrel/slide moving (or do you think a 1,000,000 fps camera would be trained on a gun in someone's hands? That stuff is expensive and very short duration; the gun was fired from a fixture.
Video 3 less clearly shows the barrel/slide moving before the flash of the bullet escaping (looked like .05" or so)
Video 4 has too much motion blur to tell much

Now, does a small bit of blow-by of gas start leaking from the muzzle before detectable motion of the slide has occurred? Yes.

TCB
 
barnbwt,

You are correct and I was wrong. There is a slight movement of the barrel rearward before the bullet is completely free of the barrel. Recoil begins to move the back back and up. This is why the barrel, when lined up with the sights points down rather than straight at the target. This is more pronounced in revolvers than pistols but is there in both.

tipoc
 
Barnbwt is correct. Recoil starts the barrel-slide unit back before the bullet leaves the barrel. The unit will move more than .05", though. More like .12" or 1/8 inch. It is that initial momentum that provides the energy required to push the slide back all the way, then still leave enough for a "bounce" that will assist in feeding the next round.

There will always be some air and gas escape ahead of the bullet (called the precursor wave, it is an important consideration in suppressor design). The air is obvious, but some powder gas also escapes around the bullet, especially with a pistol like the 1911 when the bullet jacket does not fill the corners of the rifling grooves.

In previous posts, I have mentioned tests I did involving blocking the barrel of a 1911 so that the bullet could not move. When the gun was fired, nothing happened except a sort of hissing sound as the gas escaped slowly around the bullet. But no slide motion as proven by a strain gauge between the slide and frame. (And, no, the gun did not blow up and kill me, as one poster said would happen - unless my ghost is typing this. ;) )

Jim
 
Last edited:
IIRC, those gases are booking like Mach 5 or something, which is why get so far ahead of the accelerating bullet.

Jim K, you've seen Sixth Sense, right? You just don't know you're dead, yet :p
 
"You just don't know you're dead, yet."

I knew something felt funny, but I thought it was that pepperoni pizza.

Jim
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top