Video of me being pepper sprayed with FoxLabs

[GuyWithQuestions]

So what would be an effective strategy?

So what would be an effective self-defense strategy for damage control after you do everything to avoid the situation? Pepper spray may not work in certain situations, and many studies show that firearms are notorious for not causing immediate enough stopping power to save your life. According to the FBI, if you completely destroy an attacker's heart, they still have 10-15 seconds until they lose motor control and consciousness. During this time they can still continue to use deadly force on you and in real life are known to do this. If you shoot someone in the femoral or lungs, they can still cause damage in the mean time when you're waiting for them to die! A lady was attacked by a guy and the lady shot the guy in the lungs and he started running away after that. If he had enough coordination to then run in the opposite direction, then couldn't he have had enough to kill her if that's what he was psychologically determined to do? Often the instant incapacitation from gun shot wounds is psychological, before the actual physical affects kick in! Is relying on something psychological a reliable self-defense means, while waiting for the actual physical affects to kick in? I've heard of police officers using both pepper spray and well-placed handgun shots on suspects only to be slaughtered by the assailant! I saw a police video of a police officer who was an ex-Marine who was shot by a short guy with a .22. The officer had a much more powerfull handgun and shot at the assailant quite a few times. The short guy then shot the officer in the right place and the officer died. The officer's handgun didn't seem to be that effective in the video. Police have been known to shoot those on PCP multiple times and still get severely injured. 80% of those who are shot with handguns actually live, and it's not practical to carry better firearms with you at all times such as high powered rifles and shotguns (which kill 70% of the time). The only scientifically proven way to instantly stop someone using a firearm is to destroy the central nervous system, which is very difficult in the stress of life and death situations. I heard that police hit their targets about 20% of the time in actual combat situations, so that's why they're trained to aim for center mass instead of the brain stem. I'm not sure, but I think there's a reason why SWAT teams may be sent into very dangerous situations instead of the regular police with their handguns that can fail.

So what would be a reliable self-defense strategy for a non-LEO citizen, that's legal? Would a good baseball bat be effective in holding someone back? But then you can't carry one around with you all the time and it wouldn't work in certain situations, such as long-distance. What would be an effective means?

 

[tmajors]

One thing not mentioned by people talking about Guy just standing there is that it really didn't seem like a big dose. I haven't fiddled with spray much but I remember the Deputy giving our CCW class mentioned that with spray you aren't gonna just one shot the bad guy, chances are you're gonna unload the canister on him because your freaked out.

So my question is does full on spray effect you more then a "test" shot, or would the after effects just last longer?

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

Zoogster,

I was just curious, what was the capsaicinoid content of that skin peeling pepper spray?

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

tmajors,
I've heard that 9/10 times when pepper spray doesn't work, it's because they weren't sprayed correctly, directly in their eyes and lungs.

As far as how much I got on me, whether a whole bottle was emptied on my face or just one little burst, I honestly don't think it would have made a difference to my eyes. It was quite painful and I can't imagine it feeling worse in my eyes. However, I could see getting sprayed with more of it doing something to my lungs, which would cause me a lot more problems. The stuff I used was the heavy stream, which is like a splatter, instead of the water gun type. It said stream on the bottle and you notice in the video that even though it looks like a spray not a stream, no cloud appeared behind my head. I've heard that when you get it both in the eyes and lungs, it's usually more effective. It only felt like someone heavy was standing on my chest to me.




Zoogster,
I agree with you that it's not 100% effective, that it doesn't incapacitate, and that it often will fail. I just would have a hard time believing that a "high capsacinoid content" spray is not reliable the majority of the time (not the same as many times), for self-defense situations, if you spray it correctly and the other person hasn't been sprayed a lot before. I'm not necessarily saying that I couldn't believe that it's not effective the vast majority of times, but that I would have a very difficult time believing it after being sprayed myself. I know that the FBI did a study recently that found pepper spray in general is 85% effective. Some other studies found that pepper spray's effectiveness can vary greatly depending on the capsacinoid content, from 50-95% in effectiveness, and that a well-made spray is usually quite effective.

 

[Coronach]

the problems with pepper spray, generally, are:

1. Not everyone is affected by it equally. Most people are incapacitated, but the degree of incapacitation varies heavily. It's not like a game where you can just declare someone out of commission or still in commision, real life is a sliding scale.

2. Not everyone is affected by it at the same speed. Even if someone is KTFO'ed by a blast to the face, they might continue to be able to assault you or another for a number of seconds afterwards.

3. Almost no one is INSTANTLY taken out by Mace/OC. Some people might immediately turn away, but that is probably more of a "Oh no I just got sprayed" reaction than it is rapid onset of the effects of OC. If someone is high/stupid/nuts/experienced/determined, they can and will fight for several seconds before the full effects kick in.

4. The delivery system is not exactly accurate, and the location of the hit will have a huge impact on its effectiveness.

5. Most attacks happen so quickly that the assailant has closed distance and is in direct contact before the average person can identify a threat, decide to take action, retrieve the mace and spray.

6. Most people carry the mace in a location that does not lend itself to quick deployment.

7. Most people do not practice.

8. The wind is not your friend.

This is NOT to say that Mace/OC is a poor tool or should not be carried, or should be barred from use by the Serfs. Not at all. It merely means that it is a tool, and all tools have strengths and weaknesses.

Mike

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

I've heard that like any self-defense device, pepper spray is useless unless you have it available with you all the time and have practiced with it. A lot of people do the same thing with firearms. They buy one and hide it in their house and it's not available when they need it. Threats happen so fast that often people are not able to use their firearms, but this can be corrected with availability, training, and recognizing threats. Many don't practice with their firearms, which also works against them.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

I'm just wondering why some in this forum are saying that they wouldn't carry pepper spray at all? I understand if you say that is not the only thing that you would carry. However, if you say you're only going to carry acid or a sharp pen along with your firearm, why all the distrust in pepper spray?

In the video I hit my head on the bucket because I couldn't see. I had trouble finding the towel that was on the ground (after he moved it slightly out of the way). I had to have one of my roommates open up the decontamination wipe for me because it hurt too much in my eyes that I couldn't concentrate on opening it myself. Even if I was in a situation that I couldn't feel pain, I couldn't even see. I guess it depends a lot on the type of pepper spray you have because some are supposed to be more than 10 times stronger than other ones.

 

[ShackleMeNot]

You can still function after being sprayed but it is tough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWGS4qrBCNE

Don't rely on any tool, up to and including guns, to work every time on every one. Always have a backup plan. Spray, move and prepare to fight some more.

 

[Vic303]

Shackle, I'd like to see that vid you linked, redone with the 'sprayer' person in a RedSuit and the 'sprayee' then trying to get hits on a moving target. I am surprised that the recipient had enough willpower to breathe and work the bag as much as he did.

Also curious how glasses or contact lenses affect OC exposure...

 

[GlowinPontiac]

i was once in my friends apartment when his girlfirends little brother got into her purse and emptied a can of pepper spray into the room. needless to say it was rather unplesant to be in there and we ended up opening all the windows and waiting in the hallway for about an hour. even then it stung your eyes and lungs to be in the room for the next couple hours.

 

[ctdonath]

I'm just wondering why some in this forum are saying that they wouldn't carry pepper spray at all?

1. It tends to be an area-of-effect weapon, with persistence and wind sensitivity. I can't be sure what's going to be hit.
2. I'm most likely to use it against a dog going after my dogs, and the latter may be mildly asthmatic - I don't want to kill mine while trying to protect them.

I find an ASP baton preferable: highly controllable and "less lethal" (though could be if need be).