Violent crime on the rise in Britain...

[Mike Irwin]

From Reuters/Yahoo...

"LONDON (Reuters) - Violent crime rose by 14 percent in England and Wales in the third quarter of 2003, according to Home Office figures.

Offences of violence against the person rose 17 percent from July to September, compared to the year-ago period, and sexual offences increased eight percent.

The Home Office also announced that from Thursday offenders in possession of an illegal firearm would receive a mandatory five-year prison sentence.

Ministers said the figures had been influenced by new methods in the way police record crimes.

The British Crime Survey, also published on Thursday, said that in the year to September crime fell slightly, with violence down three percent. It is based on interviews with people, not police records.

Both measures showed significant falls in burglaries and vehicle crimes.

"Crime overall is stable and I am pleased that volume crimes such as burglary, robbery and vehicle crime, are continuing to fall significantly," Home Office minister Hazel Blears said.

"It is important to put the increases in police recording of violent crime into context. Better police crime recording policies mean that local forces now have a clearer picture of crime in their area."

Ridding Britain's street of crime has become a top priority for the government.

The Conservative's Shadow Home Secretary David Davis said Labour had been "complacent" about crime.

"No amount of Home Office spin can hide the fact that violent crime is soaring," Davis said. "It is outrageously complacent for the Government to say crime is under control."

 

[Leatherneck]

Ministers said the figures had been influenced by new methods in the way police record crimes.

Seems to me we've heard that before. Do the Brits constantly revamp their accounting system?

TC
TFL Survivor

 

[Mike Irwin]

Apparently any way they can in an effort to hide the enormity of the problem...

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Apparently any way they can in an effort to hide the enormity of the problem...

What the UK socialists can't hide in thier massaged statistics is the clear anecdotal evidence of soaring violent crime in the UK since the post-Dunblane gun ban. This is shown for example by cases such as UK farmer Tony Martin being forced to defend himself in his own home against two attackers.

 

[Iain]

Coolhand - Martin wasn't attacked IIRC. He is a bad example for the pro-selfdefense people to use being as he is somewhat, how do we call it, eccentric. But let us not start on Martin again.

You guys are right, it does seem that every time new figures emerge any 'discrepancy' is put down to a change in the way the figures are calculated.

Overall crime is down and that can't be a bad thing, but it seems crime against property (burglary, car theft etc) is what is falling and the, admittedly rarer, crimes against the person are rising. Heard a guy on the radio say that our murder rate has gone up to 13 or 14 per million from about 8 per million around 10 years ago. Don't know how accurate his figures are, he claimed that even adjusting for Harold Shipman (the serial killing doctor convicted last year and who committed suicide a week or so ago) the rise was significant.

Yes, we have a crime problem. We are a western country with inner cities and associated deprivation, drugs and gangs. Perhaps we do need to think about the rights of individual citizens to defend themselves (and I am inclined to think that we do - although this may merely involve a shift in attitudes rather than the actual law) It isn't Baghdad or the West Bank over here though - you can all bring your tourist dollars anytime you like, that visit to Durham Cathedral likely Mike?

 

[Mike Irwin]

"It isn't Baghdad or the West Bank over here though..."

No, it's not.

But it's certainly not what we've grown accustomed to hearing about Britain, a crime free (heavy hints that it's crime free because it's gun free, can't forget that) glorious paradise for workers, children, the elderly, the upper, lower, and middle classes, the lords and landed gentry, the lowborn.... you get the idea.

For years we've heard how Britain is so crime free because guns were heavily restricted, and are now pretty much banned for the average Briton, yet there's that uncomfortable little fact that crime has been going up. And, as even you admit, it appears that the government has been doing its Jolly Good Best to cover up that fact by massaging the way the statistics are kept.

Could it be, after all, that there's no causal link between the availability of guns in society and the rate of crime?

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

[Iain]

Could it be, after all, that there's no causal link between the availability of guns in society and the rate of crime?

Don't think I disagree with you there.

 

[Baba Louie]

...inner cities and associated deprivation, drugs and gangs.

Could it be that the horrific (?) rise in crime is due to an influx of outsiders... say from, perhaps an island or two that were formerly British Colony/Protecterates in, say, the Caribbean?
Or have the old school Mad Dogs and Englishmen suddenly gone bonkers due to the climate and food (must be mad cow related or somesuch) they've had to endure, lo these many years?
Just what is a Yardie anyway?
Years ago, the good kingdom sent all of her troublemakers to Georgia and Australia penal colonies... where can they send them now?

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Coolhand - Martin wasn't attacked IIRC. He is a bad example for the pro-selfdefense people to use being as he is somewhat, how do we call it, eccentric. But let us not start on Martin again.

Not to rehash it all again, however, my opinion is that an attack on his home is an attack on him. And even though one burgler was shot in the back, enough confusion exists in the mind of a homeowner who is suddenly confronted in the night by intruders that Martin should have been given a pass on that aspect of the case. And given the number of instances of him being attacked in this way he should have been given a pass on illegally having a shotgun also.

It'd be nice if the US murder rate were as low as the UK's, however you folks seem to going in the wrong direction on it.

 

[Iain]

Cool Hand - I do understand what you are saying there with regards to Martin.

Baba Louie - couldn't really comment, not an inner-city dweller. And just what is wrong with our food huh? It does seem our homicide rate is climbing, but it is still rare. A WWII vet (I believe) got shot dead on his doorstep in a place called Furneux Pelham the other day, it was headline news as evidenced by my strange recollection of the name of the village.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Cool Hand Luke,

You're obviously laboring under the false impression that English Common Law, in which a man's home is his castle, is still in force in England.

Judging by what I've been reading about the British courts over the past 10 or so years, and the absolutely PATHETIC sentences that many of them hand down against burglars (as well as criminals of all kinds), the "home as a castle" has been pretty much dead for a long time.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that one of the reasons why Tony Martin was found guilty is because he didn't flee like a little pansy when he heard someone scratching at the door of his castle.

He's probably lucky that Britain no longer has a death penalty.

 

[WonderNine]

North Dakota homicide rate: 1.7 per 100,000

What's the murder rate in the U.K.? I'm sure it's much lower because there's no guns! At least not in the hands of the law abiding.

Who knows about U.K. statistics. I heard somewhere that they considered that if more than one person is victimized at the same time, they still consider it one crime. (or something like that) I wonder if they do that with homicides stats.

 

[P95Carry]

Over the past two decades perhaps .. the change in emphasis between victim and criminal has been growing .... such that defense of self is seen as often (apparently) more culpable than the commital of a crime, per se.

The perp's get almost sympathy it seems at times - should they (shudder) get hurt ... and yet the plight of victims, who's lives are often irrevocably ruined, seem to gain scant attention .. let alone much sympathy. If it were not for organizations that try to help victims it would be slim pickings for sufferers of criminal acts . the police have little sympathy en masse .. for the most part.

What is seemingly so consistently forgotten is that the cops are NOT there (or able) to stop crimes and nip assaults and thefts in the bud ... they as ever are only there to ''clear up'' after the event. This is what makes such a mockery of limitations on an honest person's RIGHT to self defense.

The place was a mess criminalogically when I left .... it seems hell bent on a continued downhill slide.... appropos ''people's rights''............ correction .. ''privelages'' .... rights as such seem to have long been stripped.

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Mike Irwin:

You're obviously laboring under the false impression that English Common Law, in which a man's home is his castle, is still in force in England.

It's amazing that the British have moved so far away from the common law, it's the foundation of their culture, and ours as well to a large extent.

 

[BeLikeTrey]

pictures

Maybe we could stem the tide of gun control if we did things differently. Appeal to emotion just like the anti's. Those old airbag commercials come to mind reading this thread on crime and victims. Was it Volvo? Anyway just put each person on camera. Put extra women and children on the ad and say things like "hi my life was saved by a firearm" or "If it weren't for a firearm I wouldn't be a mother today". Worked well on the commercial for airbags as I recall. Maybe we can even turn things around in places like England. Of course that may take a small miracle. Put faces with the subject.

 

[MicroBalrog]

http://www.armedandsecure.org/ perhaps?