Vote Bush instead of third party

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Silver Bullet

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I’ve been thinking about the matter of Bush vs Kerry vs Third Parties, and I’ve come to some conclusions.

With regards to RKBA, when I vote in the presidential election I will vote for the candidate that I think will have the most positive effect on RKBA. My personal political leanings are libertarian (“small Lâ€), or maybe Constitutionalist, but if I vote Lib and Kerry wins as a result, I have to live with four years of a president who is much more likely to sign into law more restrictive gun control measures, and who will be in a position to nominate Supreme Court Justices who will be voting on our rights for decades to come. I have to vote Bush simply because a vote for Kerry or a Third Party could mean the election of Kerry, and I (and RKBA) will be worse off.

This is true even if Bush signs in a renewed AWB, because Kerry would sign in AWB and more, and will be nominating justices.

(By the way, it seems to me that if certain legislators succeed in pushing forward a bill with increased gun restrictions to succeed the AWB, Bush is no longer bound by his promise to sign it, because it is no longer the same law.)

Now, we’ll all be outraged if Bush signs the AWB, but the presidential election is the wrong time to make a point. The right time is at the presidential primary elections; don’t let potential AWB-signers even make it to the White House. The right time is also at the upcoming election, at the grassroots level: make sure your district and state legislators are pro-RKBA. The legislators are the ones who pass the laws that the president signs. Again, keep the bills from even making it to the White House.

If you want to vote Lib because you honestly don’t see any difference in Kerry and Bush, then I can’t argue with that. But for the rest of us who do see a difference, let’s not cut off our nose to spite our face.
 
Well, I live in California, so it doesn't matter who I vote for, the electoral votes will go to the Democrat. On the other hand, I may vote for Bush, but that would not be before I voted for a third party candidate, if any will be available at the time. However, if I did vote for Kerry :barf: it would only be after I did not vote for Bush.
 
What if Bush signs the AWB renewal, who are ya gonna vote for then huh?

Still the lesser of the two evils? :barf:
 
If you want to vote Lib because you honestly don't see any difference in Kerry and Bush, then I can't argue with that. But for the rest of us who do see a difference, let's not cut off our nose to spite our face.
But why support the illusion of being a 'representative' government by voting for the status quo?

Many people want to be on 'the winning team'.. the more votes the third parties get the more "sheeple" (for lack of a better term) will start to vote third party as well....

The whole "throwing away your vote" argument is bunk. I often wonder what the election would be like if everybody voted for who they truly believed would do the best for the country.. as opposed to who they though could/would win.
 
Many people want to be on 'the winning team'

I've seen that claim a lot, but no evidence of it at all. People don't vote to be on the winning team. They vote to influence the election.

If you want to pretend that the point whatever percent of the vote the Lib party is going to get will influence anyone, go ahead.

Work from inside an established party. The only influential libertarian on a national scale is Ron Paul. Keep in mind that there is an (R) after his name.
 
There is another web site that seems to take as their mission to convince as many people as possible that a vote for President Bush is as bad a voting for Kerry when it comes to the Second Amendment. They use the statement saying the President would sign a renewal of the current AWB as proof - as if they somehow did not here him make that same statement in 2000. The guy running the web site (I refrain from calling it an organization eventhough it touts itself as such) even admitted to voting for the President in 2000. What changed between then and now for him considering he admits voting for someone who said he would sign the renewal?

A Libertarian or any other third party has a snowballs chance in hell of winning so we as gun owners need to weigh which of the two candidates that are likely to win will best represent our views. Clearly that is President Bush.

Some are deluded that if Kerry wins that will embolden Republicans in congress (they presume Republicans will retain control) to oppose Kerry on legislative proposals. They apparently forget that Clinton got far more from a Republican Congress then he did in the two years the Dems controlled congress.

Gun owners have only one real choice - Vote for President Bush.
 
Many people want to be on 'the winning team'.. the more votes the third parties get the more "sheeple" (for lack of a better term) will start to vote third party as well....

This is wrong on several levels. This "winning team" argument seems to be the latest attempt by libertarians to try to invoke feelings of guilt and self doubt among Republicans who are not that happy with GW. It's not working guys, and it's getting old.

The whole "throwing away your vote" argument is bunk. I often wonder what the election would be like if everybody voted for who they truly believed would do the best for the country.. as opposed to who they though could/would win.

Libertarians also have a hard time accepting the fact that 99.99999999999% of Americans do not agree with them. I know it's tough to be marginalized, but this fantasy that most Americans are really libertarians who just don't realize it is patently absurd. Trying to convince people that they have the same views as you when they clearly do not is counterproductive. As an example, I'm sure someone will link to the worlds smallest political quiz at some point in this thread. Trying to change their views is the correct way. Many libertarians miss this point.

I challenge anyone who thinks they are a Libertarian or is considering the party to take a hard look at the policies of the party and think critically. Think about the possible long term consequences of each stance. Don't challenge me to debate the issue with you. I've learned over the last few years that debates with libertarians almost invariably end in the non-libertarian agreeing to disagree and the libertarian often throwing perjoratives at the other guy. So I don't want to go there. If you are a libertarian because you really agree with the platform and the ideals of the party, then good for you. If you are a libertarian because someone told you about their stance on a few hotbutton issues, then you really need to look at what they are not telling you. The Libertarian Party is just as guilty as all other parties when it comes to glossing over a few issues to target a hotbutton issue that is likely to trick someone to coming into their camp. Of course, you should look critically at the entire platform of any party...not just the Libertarian Party. However, you pretty much have to rely on the stated platform of the Libertarians because we have no real statistical sampling of what they will actually do once in office. If history is any guide, they will break promises at roughly the same rate the other two do at the present time. With the other parties, you have a clear patter of behavior to go along with the platform.

[cliche hell]For better or worse, sometimes voting for the lesser of two evils is a matter of sticking with the devil you know in the hopes that you will not be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.[/cliche hell]
 
I thought elections were precisely the time to make a point.

I wont let one issue determine who I vote for. Bush and Kerry are both screw-ups on so many different levels and planes...........
 
I cast my first vote for George McGovern in 1972, Carter in 1976, Carter in 1980, Reagan in 1984, Bush in 1988, Clinton in 1992, Dole (after much soul searching) in 1996, and Bush in 2000.

My politics have changed significantly in the last 30 years, from very liberal almost Communist to increasingly conservative.

This is the first election where I've felt completely and totally helpless in the face of both parties.

The thought of either Bush or Kerry as president just makes me sick to my stomach.
 
I wont let one issue determine who I vote for. Bush and Kerry are both screw-ups on so many different levels and planes...........

True. Also true is a 99.99% CERTAINTY that ONE of them will be inaugurated POTUS next January.
 
Bush is WILLINGLY KILLING THE AWB, and the fringe guys still need to piss their vote away to the Libertarian party so Kerry can get in? Real smart.
 
Ladies and Gents,

Third parties can make a big difference.
We got Clinton 1 because of Ross Perot. We got GWB 1 because of Nader. Its NOT the total popular vote that counts its the state by state vote. As long as he is around Nader will take a lot more votes from the Dems than the Repubs. We want to keep Nader in there to split the left leaning voters. If you live in a state that is going very strongly for either Kerry or Bush, Vote Nader (hey the guy is a scumbag, with no chance to win, so hold your nose when you do it). If you live in a "battleground" state vote Bush...he is FAR from perfect, so yo may have to hold you nose voting for him too, but a whole lot better than Kerry.
 
For you people living in places where you pretty much know Kerry will win you still have a choice.

The media made a lot of noise about the fact that Gore won the popular vote. I personally think it's important that Bush win not only the electorial college vote, but the popular vote as well. Then again if you'd rather he will, but with a weak show of support then maybe you do want to vote third party.

If you are going to vote 3rd party because you can't stomach voting for Bush for whatever reason you feel is valid, you can also consider voting for Nader. Nader won't win, but when he gets votes it really seems to piss off certain Democrats. I personally feel that pissing off those dems is a worthy cause.

Personally, I'm voting for Bush, because he needs every vote he can get in Ohio, and the ads Kerry is running here throughly disgust me. Bush's compasionate conservatism is pretty liberal as it is, and 30 years ago he would likely be considered more liberal than most Democrats back then. Kerry is far, far left of Bush. If he gets in office, we're going to see a push for huge increases in government entitlements, and history has shown, that entitlements are almost never reduced or removed.
 
I have much more respect for a Democrat that stands up for what they believe in and votes for Kerry then a Libertarian that sells themselves out for the "lesser of evils."

Vote for whomever you want; I don't have to live with you, you do.
 
I figured that Geo the Duce wasn't my First choice but:

from another thread
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=93201

1. Your ideal theoretical candidate. (100%) Click here for info
2. Badnarik, Michael - Libertarian (72%) Click here for info
3. Bush, President George W. - Republican (56%) Click here for info
4. Dean, Gov. Howard, VT - Democrat (47%) Click here for info
5. Kerry, Senator John, MA - Democrat (46%) Click here for info
6. Lieberman, Senator Joe, CT - Democrat (43%) Click here for info
7. Kucinich, Rep. Dennis, OH - Democrat (39%) Click here for info
8. Edwards, Senator John, NC - Democrat (38%) Click here for info
9. Sharpton, Reverend Al - Democrat (35%) Click here for info
10. Gephardt, Rep. Dick, MO - Democrat (34%) Click here for info
11. Cobb, David - Green Party (31%) Click here for info
12. Nader, Ralph - Independent (31%) Click here for info
13. Peroutka, Michael - Constitution Party (29%) Click here for info
14. Clark, Retired General Wesley K., AR - Democrat (22%) Click here for info
15. Brown, Walt - Socialist Party (21%) Click here for info
16. Moseley-Braun, Former Senator Carol, IL - Democrat (20%) Click here for info
17. LaRouche, Lyndon H. Jr. - Democrat (17%) Click here for info
18. Hagelin, Dr. John - Natural Law (9%) Click here for info


I'm just appalled, I tell you just over 1/2 the points for Geo the Duce?

r
edit for thread info
 
Gun owners have only one real choice - Vote for President Bush.

One problem: the presidential vote is about much more than just RKBA issues. Foolish foreign policy, war based on falsehoods and/or withheld information (don't get our soldiers killed without proper justification and full disclosure to the American people), torture of POWs (we're supposed to be better than the enemy), invasion of privacy (so-called Patriot Act), withholding due process (numerous prisoners and detainees tied to 9/11 and the "War on Terror"), horrible environmental policy (we all deserve safe water and air and unspoiled places to hike or hunt), the list goes on. These and other serious failings can all be attributed/linked to the Bush administration.
 
Not me - I'm voting Libertarian. There is no way I would vote for Bush again. I contributed to his 2000 campaign and went door to door in my neighborhood to get votes out for him. In 2000 he was an easy sell here in N. Idaho, talking with my neighbors this year I'd be worried I'd get tar and feathered going door to door for him. He's lost a lot of votes in this part of the country. He's been a real disappointment.
 
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