Voter disaffection an opening for third party?

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rick_reno

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10286455/

Polling data suggests public alienated from both major parties

WASHINGTON - At a time when opinion polls indicate that Americans hold both major political parties in low esteem, can a third party move into the breach?

In the recent NBC News/ Wall Street Journal poll, when respondents were asked whether the Democrats in Congress have “the same priorities for the country as you do,” only 26 percent said yes. As for the Republicans in Congress, that same question drew an almost identical response, 24 percent, from those interviewed.

One reason voters might view Congress with distaste: evidence of corruption among House members and lobbyists.

Last week, Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, R- Calif., pleaded guilty to accepting more than $2 million in bribes from a defense contractor. Michael Scanlon, a former aide to Rep. Tom DeLay, R-Texas, pleaded guilty to conspiracy to bribe a House member (identified by lawyers in the case as Rep. Bob Ney, R-Ohio). And last year, former Rep. Frank Ballance Jr., D-N.C., who'd resigned from the House, pleaded guilty to a conspiracy charge stemming from his diversion of funds given to a charitable foundation he’d set up.

Allegations, and confessions of corruption among congressional Republicans could prompt voters in next November’s elections to install a Democratic majority in the House for the first time since 1994.

For Democrats, who seem to have the best opportunity since 1994 to regain control of the House, this would seem to be the worst time for disaffected Democrats to search for a third-party alternative.

Libertarians eye opening
But sensing public alienation from both major parties, third-party activists are trying to exploit the opening.

On Tuesday, voters’ willingness to back a third-party candidate will be put to the test as Jim Gilchrist, founder of the Minuteman Project which patrols the Arizona border to deter illegal immigrants, runs as the candidate of the American Independent Party against Republican John Campbell and three other candidates in a special election in California’s 48th congressional district.

“We’re in a rebuilding mode right now, all the focus is on 2006,” said Libertarian Party chief of staff Shane Cory.

The Libertarians are creating a voter identification database to pinpoint likely voters. “Dislodged voters are unhappy with the two-party system,” contended Cory. “That’s who we’re targeting.”

In January the party will launch its on-line “Libertarian Leadership School,” a six-week training course that will teach would-be candidates savvy such as understanding ballot access laws and complying with Federal Election Commission rules.

Another third-party stalwart, Kevin Zeese, former spokesman for Ralph Nader’s presidential bid last year, is running for the Senate seat in Maryland now held by retiring Sen. Paul Sarbanes, a Democrat.

Third-party effort in Maryland
Zeese is seeking the nominations of three parties: the Libertarians, the Greens and the Populists.

He criticizes Democratic front-runner, Rep. Ben Cardin, for accepting campaign contributions from “the military-industrial complex,” from pro-Israel groups, and from the pharmaceutical industry.

At a recent meeting Zeese had with progressive Democrats, one of them said to him, “You should run as a Democrat; you have no chance of winning outside the two-party system.”

But Zeese said, “If I run as Democrat I don’t accomplish my objective; the two-party system has to be put behind us.”

When it comes to House races, third parties run relatively few candidates and those candidates get scant attention and few votes.

Third-party hopefuls have only a slim chance of winning a House seat partly because many seats are gerrymandered, or tailored, to favor one party, and in some cases, one particular incumbent.

In theory, a third party could hold the balance of power in the House, as happens in parliamentary systems such as Great Britain’s or Israel’s.

In 1996, when Ross Perot made his Reform Party bid for president, some Reform Party House candidates spoke in optimistic terms of winning enough seats to deny either the Republicans or Democrats the House majority. The Reformers hoped they’d be the kingmakers, by swinging their support to one party or the other in return for concessions. It didn’t turn out that way. No Reform Party House candidates won a seat, either in 1996 or since.

Last year, the left-leaning Green Party, fielded 49 candidates in House races, which meant that in 386 districts there were no Green candidates.

In House races in which a Democrat, a Republican, and a Green candidate running, the best Green performance was in California’s’ 12th congressional district (which includes parts of San Francisco and San Mateo County), where Green contender Pat Gray garnered 9 percent of the vote, losing to Democrat Rep. Tom Lantos.

Lessons of history
A non-presidential election year is a difficult time to launch or expand a third-party movement. That wasn’t always the case, says Richard Winger, an expert on election law and editor of Ballot Access News.

“Back in the days when the United States had more flexible laws, and powerful parties did arise from time to time, those developments usually happened in the middle of election years (even-numbered years),” Winger said.

He noted that in May of 1854 Congress passed the Kansas-Nebraska Act which legalized slavery in territories which had formerly been closed to slavery. In response, a new party opposed to the extension of slavery, the Republican Party, was born on July 6, 1854.

The Republicans went on to win more House seats than any other party in the fall 1854 elections. And just six years later, a Republican presidential candidate -- Abraham Lincoln -- won the White House.

Getting on the ballot was easier in the early part of the 20th century than it now is for new parties and their presidential candidates.

In 1912, former president Theodore Roosevelt, displeased with the policies of his successor, President William Howard Taft, waited until August to form a new party, the Progressive Party. Winger points out the Progressive Roosevelt still got on the ballot in 45 of the 48 states, won six states and won more popular votes than Taft. The Progressives elected nine House members.

Restrictive ballot access laws and the mainstream news media’s near-exclusive focus on the two major parties make it hard for a third party to ignite an electoral prairie fire.

Comparison to 1990s
Assessing the current disaffection with the two parties, Rob Richie, executive director of a group called Fair Vote, the Center for Voting and Democracy, said, “as of now, there is nothing like the climate of 1990-1994 when Perot ran so well” and independents were elected as governors in Connecticut, Maine and Alaska.

But, he added, “That might change, particularly if someone like John McCain said he'd run as an independent rather than try to win the GOP nomination. But I think that a lot of ‘leaning’ independents (e.g., people who don't have great affection for either party, but really dislike one of the parties) see the choice between the major parties as significant enough that they don't want to ‘waste their vote’ on ‘spoilers.’”
 
Third parties will scramble to exploit the situation, further fractioning the electorate, and possibly giving one or the other of the major parties an undeserved victory.

Reform of the two major parties is the only viable long term strategy. Third parties can play a role in that endeavor, but my read of the swirling cultural and political nexus that we're currently in suggests that this is a more dangerous than normal proposition.

If the Republic is to survive, the Democratic Party (in its current configuration) Delenda Est.

On a related note, I found this illuminating: http://www.eternityroad.info/index.php/weblog/single/smackdown_part_3_hierarchies_and_revolutions/

Wherein certain aspects of the evolution of the GOP & DNC are discussed.
 
Third parties will scramble to exploit the situation, further fractioning the electorate, and possibly giving one or the other of the major parties an undeserved victory.

Elaborate on that term, undeserved victory. I've always been of the contention that it doesn't matter if you win by a little or a lot, winning's winning. How is it undeserved?
 
I have to tell you that quite a few people that I converse with regularly on politics, conservative Republicans, do not plan any longer on voting Republican. Some say they will vote Libertarian and some Constitution Party, but not Republican.

The Republican Party did this to themselves. They deserve to go down in flames. Can't wait to see it. Fortunately, most Americans don't like the Democrats either, so this is indeed a good opportunity for a third party to get some candidates elected. I, for one, am voting Constitution Party.

What a shame, by the way, that the Constitution Party and the LP cannot form an amalgam party. They agree on 90% of issues, and would be a force to reckon with.
 
They agree on 90% of issues, and would be a force to reckon with.

Here's your force to be reckoned with, from election 2004:

Michael Badnarik Richard Campagna Libertarian 397,265 0.32%
Michael Peroutka Chuck Baldwin Constitution 144,499 0.12%

That's just over 1/2 a million votes, a whopping 0.42% of the electorate.\


{edited to fix misplaced decimal point, sorry, my bad.}
 
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geekWithA.45 said:
Here's your force to be reckoned with, from election 2004:

Michael Badnarik Richard Campagna Libertarian 397,265 0.32%
Michael Peroutka Chuck Baldwin Constitution 144,499 0.12%

That's just over 1/2 a million votes, a whopping .042% of the electorate.

Well you're off by a factor of 10, it's .42%, but I see your point. most people last time were voting against either candidate, it doesn't take much of a push to vote for someone new given that mind set.
 
Reform of the two major parties is the only viable long term strategy. Third parties can play a role in that endeavor, but my read of the swirling cultural and political nexus that we're currently in suggests that this is a more dangerous than normal proposition.

Tell that to the whig party. Bet that never thought those upstart Republicans would ever have a chance.
 
Third parties will scramble to exploit the situation, further fractioning the electorate, and possibly giving one or the other of the major parties an undeserved victory.
That is possible. But frankly there are few people in either major party worth bothering with. Personally unless the republicans put up someone worth bothering with I will likly vote libertarian or constitutional. I prefer the constitutional party slightly as far as views go but overall they impart a bit to much religion IMO.
 
The next election will boil down to McCain versus Hillary.

Remember when Bush was running in 2000 for the Republican nomination? Just about all good Republicans were really trashing McCain. I guarantee when 2008 rolls around and McCain is up against Hillary, those same people will be talking about how great McCain is. They will say any vote for someone other than McCain is just a vote for Hillary.
 
The trouble with 3rd parties is that most of the time the candidates are wack job fringites.

Ross Perot did as well as he did because of his background. He was a well known millionaire mustang who was a boots on the ground, hands on guy. But he was well known and not thought of as a fringe group nut. Americans still like guys like that. That's why we went for Ronnie.

A third party will not cut it until a substantial number of conservative Republican leaders band together and stick to conservative principals and drift from the party. That action may just swing the Republican Party back to the right where its base is. The third party will merely be the tool that does that.

Frankly, I'd like to see the leaders of both parties be honest, change the names of both parties to Conservative and Socialist and open up the membership to those of like mind. That might also cause a formation of a third party of Moderates. At least by their stripes you'd know 'em.
 
grampster said:
Frankly, I'd like to see the leaders of both parties be honest, change the names of both parties to Conservative and Socialist and open up the membership to those of like mind. That might also cause a formation of a third party of Moderates. At least by their stripes you'd know 'em.
If we had accuracy in names the Dems should change their name to the Internationalist Socialists, and the Republicans should change their name to the Internationalist Police State Party. That would leave room for a nationalist conservative party to compete against them.
 
Frankly, I'd like to see the leaders of both parties be honest, change the names of both parties to Conservative and Socialist and open up the membership to those of like mind.

Which party would be the Conservatives? Certainly not the party whose admninistration has increased federal welfare and bureaucracy more than any since the birth of the Great Society?


Give me a third party that is not led by an unbathed fruitcake who wants to legalize drugs, and I will be happy to squander my vote and let Hillary win.
 
Reform of the two major parties is the only viable long term strategy.

Detroit used to want us to believe the big three automobile makers were the only choice.

Realistically speaking, nobody would miss the Republicrat and Democan parties. The nation is disgusted with both—and deservedly so.
 
lone gunman good one! no kidding!

What I know for sure:
Democrats= increased welfare and increased control = Federal Govt growing
GOP= increased warfare and monitoring/for your security= Federal Govt growing

its always a win-win for the Govt and liberty looses everytime.:cuss:

thats why I left the GOP
 
Are the folks who are talking about not voting Republican independents, or are they religious fanatics? IMHO, the defection of the religious right from the Democrats was the beginning of the eventual downfall of the Republicans.
 
God point Lone_Gunman now is that because of the party as a whole or is it because of the person in charge of the party currently. As much as I would like there to be a simple answer they are often more complex. We look at the past knowing almost everything that happpened, the causes of those events, and the results of them. The sand has already been sifted for the past. However the the sand obscures what is important in the present to help us in the future.
 
Are the folks who are talking about not voting Republican independents, or are they religious fanatics? IMHO, the defection of the religious right from the Democrats was the beginning of the eventual downfall of the Republicans.
Please tell me that's a typo.

I am unaware of any previously Democrat religious righters.

[opinion]
These national elections are a stupid contest.
If you vote republican and the Democrat wins, you come in second.
If you vote Democrat and the republican wins, you come in second.
If you vote Libertarian, regardless who wins, you come in third.
Third in a stupid contest is good.
[/opinion]

It is in the interest of the ruling elite that no 3rd party person wins. Since the ruling elite manages the managed media the ruling elite will make sure that anybody that represents a threat to the duopoly is marginalized.

It's a Punch and Judy show. We are not watching a conflict.

We are watching a performance.

Wise up.
 
3rd Party

I personally would love to see a third party that has some teeth. But as has been shown over the last 10-12 years, you must keep the continuity of the congress. The repub majority does not push for things that conservatives believe in... they may be too used to being the minority and compromise with anything. I don't know.

I fear another Klinton campaign. Who has the possibility of running against it?

Condi? No. Tom Tancredo? Not well enough known. Who?

Main stream media has too much influence for an unknown to come up.
 
grampster said:
The trouble with 3rd parties is that most of the time the candidates are wack job fringites.

Ross Perot did as well as he did because of his background. He was a well known millionaire mustang who was a boots on the ground, hands on guy. But he was well known and not thought of as a fringe group nut. Americans still like guys like that. That's why we went for Ronnie.

A third party will not cut it until a substantial number of conservative Republican leaders band together and stick to conservative principals and drift from the party. That action may just swing the Republican Party back to the right where its base is. The third party will merely be the tool that does that.

Frankly, I'd like to see the leaders of both parties be honest, change the names of both parties to Conservative and Socialist and open up the membership to those of like mind. That might also cause a formation of a third party of Moderates. At least by their stripes you'd know 'em.

A third party of moderates would mean that neither the left nor right would get elected, since people more toward the middle are where the real numbers are. In other words, nothing would change except the rhetoric.
 
dch1978 said:
I personally would love to see a third party that has some teeth. But as has been shown over the last 10-12 years, you must keep the continuity of the congress. The repub majority does not push for things that conservatives believe in... they may be too used to being the minority and compromise with anything. I don't know.

I fear another Klinton campaign. Who has the possibility of running against it?

Condi? No. Tom Tancredo? Not well enough known. Who?

Main stream media has too much influence for an unknown to come up.
Actually, I firmly believe that the vast majority of so called conservative republican office holders in the Federal Government don't actually want to change anything. They pretended to only to get in office. Now that they are there, they do nothing but add more leftist, statist, police state, and internationalist laws to the books. The last thing they really want to do is return government to being subordinate to the Constitution. That's why when we actually give them the power to do something, it's still just business as usual. This is also why we need to vote for the US Constitution Party. Nothing will change until enough people become sick and tired and start feeling rebellious enough to just up and leave the Republicrat plantation. I, for one, will only vote US Constitution Party from now on. The Republicans have now thoroughly proven that, even if we give them all the power they want, they will do nothing to restore the Constitutional Republic.
 
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