Wa state alert: Seattle mayor will ban guns

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Dave Workman, Nov 22, 2008.

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  1. expvideo

    expvideo Member

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    ROFL,
    The only bigger commie in this state than Greg Nickels is Christine Gregoire. Email the AG.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  2. NWGunner

    NWGunner Member

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    In response to the OP, do you think we would be ill-advised to exercise the rights afforded to us with our Concealed Pistol Licenses at the Dec. 15th meeting?

    I'm wary of the near-do-wells that seem to flourish in the downtown area and NEVER go down there unarmed.


    Maybe we could have this all figured out if someone could get Mayor Nickels to an IDPA match?
     
  3. expvideo

    expvideo Member

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    Email sent to the Attorney General.
     
  4. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    Whats the AG's mailing address... letter campaign is what we need to do using the above.
     
  5. expvideo

    expvideo Member

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    Go to the AG's site. It has options for online, phone and mail.
     
  6. Jefferson Herb

    Jefferson Herb Member

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    Hey Dweeb,Does thinking that F Marcos in PI should have suffered more help me pass? Or Martial law is unacceptable?Or how about that I would like to see californicate split ?
    I would love to see the state of Jefferson become a reality,where we take back our water and timber.
    I know it won't happen so I'll be a transplant someday[5-7 yrs]and I prommis,where ever I go;I won't try to change what I found with dumb ca thoughts!!
     
  7. JoeFish

    JoeFish Member

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    I'm new here, so I'm sorry if this is too off-topic, but I would counsel you not to think of California as a single thing or idea. Being the third largest state, with the largest economy and 37 million people, there is no such thing as a typical Californian. In addition to Los Angeles and San Francisco, we grow most of the food produced in this country and have thousands of small towns in and around over a hundred thousand square miles of National Park and open wilderness.

    I own handguns, rifles and shotguns, and use them to hunt feather and fur all across this great state, not to mention their use for personal protection.

    As for Seattle, if the governments of densely populated areas feel the need to have different laws about guns than rural areas, they should enlist the help of gun advocates to find legal, constitutional solutions that work for everyone, rather than a lot of chest-pounding for votes from the station wagon crowd.

    NWGunner, if I can offer my two cents, I would say it's better not to go to the hearing packing if the law has already been enacted. Even an unconstitutional law is a law until it's struck down. And even though time and posterity may be on your side, is it really worth the hassle of getting arrested?

    If you're concerned about the area you're going into, bring the pepper spray that night.
     
  8. Byron Quick

    Byron Quick Moderator In Memoriam

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    Guys, I'm not current on exactly how Washington's exemption law reads.

    However, Georgia has an exemption law and we have municipalities trying to ban licensed concealed carry in city parks.

    A state grassroots RKBA organization- Georgiacarry.org had to take the municipalities to court to stop it. Georgiacarry.org won the cases but I don't think our preemption statute carries any penalties against municipalities that violate it. I'd be surprised if Washington's does.

    To the Washingtonians who have stated they will carry in defiance of the ban. Be prepared to be arrested and charged if you are discovered. To prevail, be prepared to file a lawsuit.
     
  9. expvideo

    expvideo Member

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    The ban is defiant, not my carrying. Washington state restricts the right to control firearms, and does not allow cities, counties or anyone else to make gun laws. That way the law of the land is the law of the land, and you don't have to know the municipal codes of Tacoma and Seattle, just to drive down I-5.
     
  10. Kentak

    Kentak Member

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    Respectfully, get a grip. A public official trying to enact what may or may not be an "illegal" law is not an arrestable offense, if an offense at all. It simply becomes a matter of the law being challenged in court to determine its legal status.

    I bet you can't cite a single case where a mayor or other official has been arrested for trying to pass a law.

    However, if this law does pass, I would urge you to be in civil disobedience of the law, be arrested, challenge the legality of the law, and be a hero to the gun community.

    K
     
  11. coltrane59

    coltrane59 Member

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    Thanks for the heads up...on my calendar. I'd like to be there if possible.
     
  12. JoeFish

    JoeFish Member

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    I have to second that. The attorney general, regardless of their stance on the law, is not about to arrest a sitting mayor for passing a city ordinance. We are all entitled to our opinions, but one of the ways we lose ground in hearts and minds in this country is by appearing too extreme. (And this comes from the guy who initially bought a gun because if I didn't then the government would be the only people with guns.)
     
  13. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    Ohio also has 'pre-emption', but as ar10 pointed out, City of Clyde tried banning CCW in city parks and got a major smackdown from the Ohio Supreme Court. O-DOT is having to take down their "No Guns" signs from Ohio rest stops, too.

    Cleveland Mayor Hizzoner "Li'l Frankie Jackson" has filed suit to have the pre-emption overturned, but AFAIK right now, that has done nothing except spend a bunch of money the City of Cleveland could use in sooooo many other areas.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
  14. expvideo

    expvideo Member

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    It is a crime. Any enforcement of this law would be a federal offense. I listed the laws. It's called a "color of law" violation and it's very serious. The fact that you think public officials can do whatever they want without consiquence is a problem. The fact that I have to go and get arrested and pay a lot of money to an attorney to get this "law" removed is also a problem. And "color of law" is a very real thing. It's not extremism. I've cited two very clear laws that have rather severe penalties for this exact kind of action. Enforcing the law is not extremism. Asking for the law to be enforced is not me needing to "get a grip".
     
  15. cobra2411

    cobra2411 Member

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    What a coincidence... On that day in 1791 our bill of rights was ratified...

    Someone should stage a "bill of rights" party in the parking lot... :)
     
  16. JoeFish

    JoeFish Member

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    I don't think anyone is saying that these laws are right, constitutional or even have legs, but the simple fact is that- in this country, at least not right now- no government official is going to be arrested or jailed for the kind of offense we're talking about.

    And I disagree that getting arrested and fighting for overturn afterwards is the best way to fight this. I'm no stranger to political activism or facing the penalties of law enforcement for said activism, but when people get arrested intentionally to overturn a law, 3 times out of 5 they have the legal team assembled already- the arrest is a formality of the process. If someone is a local NRA official (or has deep pockets) and wants to start that kind of process, that's a whole different thing from an individual getting arrested, and then having to fight his way out on his own.

    Edit- and for the record, I don't think elected officials can do whatever they want; I'm just pointing to the realities of how the system works.
     
  17. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    expvideo, i plagiarized your letter above into two forms, one for WA State residents and one for visitors to WA State, they are in PDF form and I will post them here after work.

    Once they are loaded it would be nice if every member of this forum (I know pipe dream) would fill out and send the appropriate letter to the WA State AG... how many members do we have here?

    71808 members, not sure if all are active, but it would be nice if even half of those sent a letter to the AG...

    Some one would have to pay attention to over 35,000 letters.
     
  18. Upriver

    Upriver Member

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    Folks,

    From the AG's website - how to report an elected official regarding malfeasance (see below):

    Under RCW 43.09.260, the Attorney General's Office is authorized to take action in a matter if an audit examination by the Auditor's Office discloses malfeasance, misfeasance or nonfeasance on the part of a public officer or employee. Concerns of this nature should be directed to the State Auditor's Office at:

    http://www.sao.wa.gov/Hotline/default.htm,

    which reviews operations of state and local agencies to ensure that public funds are spent and accounted for in accordance with the law.

    malfeasance (from wiki):

    The West Virginia Supreme Court of Appeals summarized a number of the definitions of malfeasance in office applied by various appellate courts in the United States.

    “ Malfeasance has been defined by appellate courts in other jurisdictions as a wrongful act which the actor has no legal right to do; as any wrongful conduct which affects, interrupts or interferes with the performance of official duty; as an act for which there is no authority or warrant of law; as an act which a person ought not to do; as an act which is wholly wrongful and unlawful; as that which an officer has no authority to do and is positively wrong or unlawful; and as the unjust performance of some act which the party performing it has no right, or has contracted no, to do. ”
    —Daugherty v. Ellis, 142 W. Va. 340, 357-8, 97 S.E.2d 33, 42-3 (W. Va. 1956) (internal citations omitted).

    The court then went on to use yet another definition, "malfeasance is the doing of an act which an officer had no legal right to do at all and that when an officer, through ignorance, inattention, or malice, does that which they have no legal right to do at all, or acts without any authority whatsoever, or exceeds, ignores, or abuses their powers, they are guilty of malfeasance."


    Let's continue to encourage the AG to go after him, under the state's legal system.

    Regards,

    U
     
  19. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    Here are the letters, please fill them out and send them to the AG.

    MD
     

    Attached Files:

  20. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    Realized I messed up the other two documents, use these instead.
     

    Attached Files:

  21. jbauch357

    jbauch357 Member

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    I sent these out to a bunch of people here at MS - hopefully the message spreads and quite a few letters end up being sent.

    Did piss off a bunch of the anti's :rolleyes:
     
  22. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    Cool.

    I have sent emails to non members, most are friends outside WA State that do visit Seattle and they do carry. Those friends are contacting their friends that visit Seattle too.

    I mailed my letter today.

    I hope the AG lays the smack on the Mayor...
     
  23. Diamondback6

    Diamondback6 Member

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    Thanks, MD. Could "false arrest" be construed as "kidnapping" in the eyes of 18USC242?
     
  24. Kentak

    Kentak Member

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    Are you a lawyer? Your tagline says no, and it shows.

    You are wrong in the way you are interpreting the laws you cited. No, I'm not a lawyer either, so I guess that makes it my opinion against yours. And, where did I say I think a public official can do whatever they want without consequence? It is not a crime for a public official to try to enact an illegal law that hasn't even been declared illegal yet. When that happens, people challenge the law in court.

    Name ONE instance where a public official was arrested for either trying to pass a law or enforcing a duly enacted law.

    K
     
  25. Kentak

    Kentak Member

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    BTW, an AG's advisory opinion, is just that, an opinion. It is not a directive with the force of law, like a court order. The mayor can say, thanks for your opinion, I'll take it into consideration, and then do what he wants. It seems the AG, in this case, opined that enacting a ban wouldn't stand a legal challenge, and the ban would be overturned--in the AG's opinion. It might, it might not. But, *enacting* the ban isn't a crime. Enforcing the ban isn't a crime either, unless and until the ban is overturned by a court with jurisdiction.

    K
     
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