Walther P-1 - A Sad Update

[New_geezer]

I'm a bit red-faced about this since I recently posted in favor of Walther P-1s, the post-WWII alloy framed version of the P-38. However fair is fair and I need to own up that when cleaning my P-1 after use this weekend, I discovered a small crack in the frame. Actually I didn't see the crack initially, I felt it. I first thought it a small ding and tried to smooth it out with some emory paper and that revealed the crack for what it was. Needless to say my P-1 is now in retirement.

My P-1 was accepted into service in 4/82. It went to the West German armory 3 times for routine service, the last time in 1/95. It has all matching serial numbers on the key components. I bought the gun in 5/03 as a consignment piece and since then have put maybe 1,000 rounds thru it, almost all WWB 115 gr loads, with no problems. I have never used handloads, P+, or any other high powered ammo.

I hate to think I used the gun that long without noticing, but I have to wonder a little if the previous owner might have used high powered ammo and continued use aggravated the problem the high powered ammo created. I have read a great many reports of P-1 that have lasted a very long time using only standard ammo, and too many reports of high powered ammo causing damage. Still, I can only report what I know for certain. Regardless this should serve as good advice for anyone thinking of buying a P-1 or any previously used firearm for that matter. Learn how to examine and check out any used firearm you're considering and do so closely and carefully before putting your money down. Even a trustworthy dealer can let a lemon slip by and tho I've yet to see it happen at this site, in other gun forums I've seen members post that they traded off a damaged gun without mentioning the defect. To my mind that's just not right.

Despite this experience I will still consider buying another P-1 in the future if a good deal becomes available. It is a sweet, smooth pistol to shoot and hey I've already got 2 extra magazines. Here are some pictures of the crack I found. Notice there's no damage visible on the outside of the P-1 opposite the crack.

 

[AZ Jeff]

The pics don't show it clearly, but you are saying the crack runs lengthwise in the frame below the clearance cut for the locking block, and from back in the recoil spring seat area forward. Am I correct?

If so, that direction of cracking sort of surprises me. I would expect a crack to run VERTICAL, not horizonatally.

You are SURE it's a crack, right?

 

[New_geezer]

Yes the direction of the crack surprized me as well but that thin curving white line in the area indicated is the crack. Looking at it from the front, it goes just slightly deeper than the lip of the groove the barrel fits into. If you run your finger along it you can feel the raised edge. I can't tell how deep into the frame it actually goes. Since that picture, I've completely stripped the frame and inspected it with a magnifying glass but there is no indication goes completely thru. And I haven't found any other cracks. I could probably put another thousand rounds thru the gun without an issue but who knows and why risk it. I suspect if the crack continued, that area would break off in a chunk rather than a complete fracture of the frame. Bad enough tho as you can see part of the crack goes under the end of the recoil spring on that side.

I'm going to have a gun smith take a quick look at it but I'm not hopeful. Numrich lists a replacement frame for about $100. I'm checking a few other sources as well. It means my serial numbers won't match any more but hey, it was just a favorite shooter anyway.

 

[AZ Jeff]

The recoil spring does not actually contact or place any pressure on the portion of the frame when the pistol is assembled. It only does so when the slide is run off the front, and the recoil spring (and it's forward guide) move forward a couple of millimeters to rest against the milled stop in the frame.

So....I would not be real worried about the spring imposing any forces on the crack directly.

 

[gopguy]

Well on the bright side, since you intend to buy another P1 you have spare parts you can strip off the other gun. Pity though. I had a locking block break on a P1 ages ago. At least that was easy enough to replace.

 

[New_geezer]

I would not be real worried about the spring imposing any forces on the crack directly.

No that wouldn't be the problem if it broke off. I'd lose about half the milled out portion of the frame that acts as a stop for the recoil spring and its front guide.

I have a hard time trying to imagine what forces put that type of crack in it. The gunsmith was also at a loss for ideas.

Just found out buying a new frame involves a new CA DROS fee plus whatever the FFL holder wants to charge - minimum $50, plus whatever the frame costs (probably about $100) plus shipping, tax etc. A "new" P-1 can be had on sale for around $235 ($285 reg). My best option might be to part-out what's left or as gopguy suggested, keep it for spares.

 

[dsk]

I have a hard time trying to imagine what forces put that type of crack in it. The gunsmith was also at a loss for ideas.

If you could see some high-speed, stop-motion video of your pistol firing you might be surprised at what you see. Pistol frames flex and wobble everytime a round goes off, which is why you often see dust cover cracks on alloy 1911's despite the fact that there's no stress imparted there from recoil. All it takes is a sharp machined edge trying to flex back and forth to start a crack.

 

[CAnnoneer]

I am sorry to hear about the damage to your piece. The cracking problem has been known at THR.

If you would like to keep the pistol functional, why not buy a spare slide on ebay? I've seen all sorts of parts for a luger, so there may be some for the P38/P1.

 

[New_geezer]

If you could see some high-speed, stop-motion video of your pistol firing you might be surprised at what you see. Pistol frames flex and wobble everytime a round goes off

That makes me wonder if an advantage of polymer frames is because of the nature of the material, they handle the flex and wobble better, whereas metal frames would tend to get brittle over time. Rather than fight the flexing, polymer is better able to "go with the flow".