Walther P38 vs M1911A1 (vs Luger P08)

[rs525]

It's been a long time since I've posted anything but I was thinking about dwindling down my gun collection as money is tight. What I want to ask is between three classic pistols, the Luger P08 the Walther P38 and the M1911A1 (any style or brand), which one do you prefer to shoot? I want to know if it's worth getting a Walther P38 (can't justify the money for a Luger as cool as they are). I have not shot either a Luger or Walther but I do have an Auto Ordnance 1911 for reference.
While I do think the 1911 is a pain to disassemble, the trigger on mine could be better and the sights need to be replaced because they are way too small, this thing is so fun to shoot. Surprisingly soft shooting and ergonomic for the most part (I've also shot a Glock 21 and WOW, soft shooting and superbly accurate). Needless to say I love .45 ACP.
I also own a Browning Hi Power, Beretta 92FS and a Glock 17 Gen 2. Compared to these 4 pistols, is it worth owning a Walther P38 other than just historical value?

 

[Slamfire]

I also own a Browning Hi Power, Beretta 92FS and a Glock 17 Gen 2. Compared to these 4 pistols, is it worth owning a Walther P38 other than just historical value?

No it is not.

What I want to ask is between three classic pistols, the Luger P08 the Walther P38 and the M1911A1 (any style or brand), which one do you prefer to shoot? I want to know if it's worth getting a Walther P38 (can't justify the money for a Luger as cool as they are). I have not shot either a Luger or Walther but I do have an Auto Ordnance 1911 for reference.

This is an all steel WW2 version. These have their issues, particularly parts breakage due to slave labor sabotage on the production line.




The post War aluminum frame version, 1964 mfgr.



the post war aluminum frame version has its own issues, the locking lugs hit the aluminum frame hard and deform the material. I do not know when I will have issues due to frame deformation, and just how long it takes for the frame to crack. Later P1's have a steel cross pin, so obviously the Germans put it there for some durability reason.




In 1938 the P38 was a major technological advancement on previous pistols. It was double action, firing pin block, extremely easy to field strip, and probably some other features I can't think of now. Placing the safety on drops the hammer and prevents the trigger from being pulled. It is a much safer pistol than the WW1 crop of service pistols. I do like the open top design, rounds kick out without any interfering structure to rebound against. It is also easy to see what is going on if you have a malfunction.





The safety is a two handed affair as it is not really accessible by the shooting hand. The grip is designed for one handed shooting, not that comfortable with two hands. It is a single stack 9mm in an era of double stage 9mm. I do not consider any of my P38's or P1's to be as accurate as my better 1911's, but the German service pistols are totally adequate for a service pistol. I had to file the front sights down my P38's/P1's to get them to shoot to point of aim, luckily I did not have to find a taller front sight. Don't know where to get them.

While the P38 field strips easily, anything further is extremely involved and tricky. This pistol was designed for basic cleaning by the owner and anything else was to be done by the unit armorer. I do love how far I can detail strip a 1911. The more modern designs follow the P38 practice.

I consider the P38 obsolescent as a personal defense firearm. It will work better than a cap and ball, or Colt SAA, not that any of those would be a first choice self defense weapon. Neither the P38 or the K98 should be considered first line weapons anymore. They had their day. A P38 is a historical curiosity more than anything else.

So is this.



I consider the P5 as a product improved P38. But the P5 was offered just as Glocks hit the marketplace. The desirability of a large frame single stack 9mm was less than a double stack Glock.

I got to fire a Luger once. It was fun. The pistol was some sort of post WW2 rebuild, maybe by the Russians. It went bang, and that was all I expected.

 

[The_Quartermaster]

Both the Luger and P38 do nothing for me, however a 1911 still makes me smile. It's how I unwind after doing drills and a reminder that I should still enjoy myself at the range and stop being so stupid larper serious all the time.

A 1911A1 is also Americana to me, war trophies not so much to my eye.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I honestly like the P38 more. Just feels more refined to me. More like ball bearings rather than clunky gears. Can't explain it. Smoother but still mechanical.

Edit: I should rephrase, the P1. I got mine for cheap and it's a fun classic shooter

 

[MikeInOr]

I own all 3. My tuned and worked over 1911's get quite a bit of range time.

My P08 and P38 are collector items. They both get shot, shoot nicely and are fun to shoot. I am not going to replace the sites or work over the triggers on either to make them into nice range guns. Just the sites on the Germans keep them from being accurate and quick range guns.

Use the money to tune up your 1911! There is a ton of potential under that slide. If I had stock GI 1911's they would be shot about as often as the Germans.

 

[Remington1911]

If I really wanted to shoot it I think I would skip the P38, for the reasons above, and just do a P1. Not as expensive and it gives you the same "feel" as the war time version.

 

[jar]

I have an ac41 P-38 which was made in August 1941 when it was still the regular Walther staff and before the slave labor era. It was also hard chromed at some time in it's life but other than cleaning and getting it serviced and new return springs installed a few years ago it's simply the most fun to shoot 9mm Luger I've ever been privileged to own. Just a joy to shoot one handed; point, pull trigger, rock up, rock down; giggle & repeat.

BUT, I'm at the downsizing stage and it is currently looking for a Forever Home.

Still keeping and often carrying the modern 1911A1s.

 

[trackskippy]

Other than historical value, probably not. The P38's continue to go up in price, as are the P1's. Ten years ago, you could have had a P1 for about $250, they are easily double that now. The Lugers are even worse. I see all three of them on Gun Broker going for crazy prices these days.

That said, they are cool and interesting guns and fun guns to shoot. In the past, Ive owned a couple of P38's and P1's, and a Luger. I currently have one of the later P1's with the cross block and shoot it a couple of times a year.
The others funded other things I just had to have. Glad I had them and got to shoot them, but, I really dont miss them.

The 1911 is a 1911, but I only consider either the Colts or USGI guns to be "true" 1911's. As far as Im concerned, Jeff Cooper basically ruined them with what followed in the 70's and going forward. A "good" 1911 is a great gun. Unfortunately, there are a lot more of the "not so good" out there, and they can be quite frustrating.

If youve got the money, and like to collect certain things, one of each of the issue guns would be the way to go. You can still enjoy shooting them too. No point in having them if you cant shoot them.

 

[Cacas ex Fortuna]

Lets see, we got 45s but no 9s.
Guess that says it all.

 

[bannockburn]

Slamfire

This is an all steel WW2 version. These have their issues, particularly parts breakage due to slave labor sabotage on the production line.

That and feeling the effects of daylight and night time bombing by the Allies, the shortage of raw materials, and in many cases little in the way of proper heat treatment, led to many late issue P-38s being down right dangerous to use!

Why the Germans even bothered to continue making something as unimportant as a sidearm so late in the war is just beyond comprehension!

 

[The_Quartermaster]

Why the Germans even bothered to continue making something as unimportant as a sidearm so late in the war is just beyond comprehension!

What's a machine gunner to carry for self defense when they can't get their MG off the line or from the tripod in time when being overrun? They can't use it as a club or a pike to mount a bayonet to.

This was their thinking, and we were doing that kind of thinking too. Hence it's importance because of the total war thinking of that timeline over the unimportance of what another doesn't like.

 

[FL-NC]

P08 and P38 are interesting pieces of history to me, nothing more. I have no use for more safe queens.

 

[1KPerDay]

If you’re a history buff the Luger and P.38 are great to have. I shoot my AC41 from time to time and it’s very satisfying. I shoot my 1911 quite a bit more. I disagree that a P1 gives you the same feel as a steel framed p.38.

detail stripping the slide is a PITA as slamfire says.

 

[Rudolph31]

Just a word of warning about that hammer drop safety. It trips the sear and grabs but doesn’t really block the firing pin. That part of the pin can fail and if it does, the gun will turn into a machine gun.

DON’T TRUST THE SAFETY ON A P38!

 

[Smaug]

<snip>
I also own a Browning Hi Power, Beretta 92FS and a Glock 17 Gen 2. Compared to these 4 pistols, is it worth owning a Walther P38 other than just historical value?

Absolutely not.

I've shot all of them. The 1911 is good with 230 gr. ball ammo at full power. As you say, heavy trigger and small sights are the norm for a military-style one, but this can be fixed. It's worth noting that small sights can be easy to shoot accurately, in good light, at least. Many have found that a tiny amount of white nail polish on the front sight can make a world of difference; you might try that before you start spending money on sights and sight tools.

The P38 was the predecessor to modern 9 mm pistols. It was cheaper to make than the Luger, and I think less maintenance-intensive, so it took over. Really heavy DA trigger on them and a single stack mag.

The P08 is the most interesting of the three, for sure. The balance is just perfect; it feels like all the weight is right over your hand. They are tightly made, but need hot ammo with at least 124 gr. bullets to be anything approaching reliable. It was fun to shoot one when a guy at the range had one, but I don't think I'd own one for what they cost.

Those pistols you have are all better in almost every way than the P08, P38 and 1911.

I think if I were to sell one of those pistols to raise funds for a new one, I'd probably sell the Glock 17. It's a great gun, and started the whole "lightweight + high firepower" movement, and it's the one that I would be most likely to carry of those four, but there are smaller, lighter carry guns and the others are probably going to be easier to shoot accurately at distance then the G17. Also, if you change your mind, there are millions of them; you could easily re-purchase.

Then, branch out a bit. How about a shooter grade S&W M1917? That would shoot the 45 you like; sharing ammo with the 1911. Also, it's from the same vintage and shares military history with the 1911. It was the US Government's back-up sidearm, when they ran out of 1911s. In fact, 2/3 more M1917s were issued than the more famous 1911s! In my opinion, they've held up a lot better over time than the P38 and P08 did. Last thing: if you are a handloader, you can do a lot more with 45 ACP in a revolver than you can in a pistol.

 

[PRD1]

I've owned and/or shot all of them. As a military pistol, I wouldn't trade my 1911 or A1 for any of them (well, maybe the HP, but it wouldn't be an even swap). The 1917 revolvers (both Colt and Smith) are great guns, but not as desirable for a combat piece as the best of the semi-autos, and, at least in my average-size hands, they are over-large in grip geometry and DA trigger reach. I like 'em all, but would stick with the Colt 1911 type for serious use.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

 

[Jim Watson]

Just a word of warning about that hammer drop safety. It trips the sear and grabs but doesn’t really block the firing pin. That part of the pin can fail and if it does, the gun will turn into a machine gun.

DON’T TRUST THE SAFETY ON A P38!

Right. There are risks from "crystallized metal", inferior wartime materials, and "slave labor" sabotage.
The original Walther HP had a more positive safety that retracted the firing pin and let the hammer hit the solid slide. Later HPs were just commercial finish P38s. Original HP has a round firing pin, late HP/P38 has rectangular.

Really heavy DA trigger on them

Evaluation of captured P38s turned Jeff Cooper and a lot of his generation against the DA/SA auto for a long time.

The balance is just perfect; it feels like all the weight is right over your hand. They are tightly made, but need hot ammo with at least 124 gr. bullets to be anything approaching reliable.

Few target shooters want "all the weight right over your hand". Mauser made a few 1970s target Parabellums with bull barrels and adjustable sights. The Swiss seemed to do OK with standard Lugers, though. The spec for the highly regarded Sig P210 was that it be as accurate as the Lugers.

"Hot ammo" for a Luger is a common misconception. The original 1902 9mm load was very close to current commercial stuff. Germany went from 124 gr to 115 gr before WWI. And consider that the Luger was originally designed for 7.65 with a 93 gr bullet at 1250 fps.
One student of the type wrote that "an overloaded Luger looks a lot like an underloaded Luger." Until something breaks, of course.

 

[Jimbo80]

I am lucky enough not to have to decide and have older and "newer" versions of each. Each and every one of them are fun to shoot and way up the scale in cool and history. If you were in FL I would let you try them. It might make for an easier decision.

Financially a P1 might be the obvious choice for a shooter but you might think about going with a mismatched Luger. A non matching side plate can save you hundreds and make for an affordable shooter you wouldn't feel guilty about shooting.

 

[Jim Watson]

A non matching side plate can save you hundreds and make for an affordable shooter you wouldn't feel guilty about shooting.

Years and years ago, there was a number matching service advertising in Shotgun News.
Send in your gun number and your side plate number and maybe a swap could be arranged.
Still not likely to be the original, there are a lot of '52' side plates out there from guns 52 to 9952 n , but it would be "correct."

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Just a word of warning about that hammer drop safety. It trips the sear and grabs but doesn’t really block the firing pin. That part of the pin can fail and if it does, the gun will turn into a machine gun.

DON’T TRUST THE SAFETY ON A P38!

Broken safeties and hammers are a thing on old Walthers too. Its best practice now to use the decocker while lowering the hammer over an empty chamber, slowly with the other thumb.

I wasnt a fan of the P1. I found the trigger lousy and my example wasnt stunningly accurate. Sold it to a buddy who liked it more than I did and have no desire to try another. It did look cool, though.....

A 1911 is a 1911. Everyone should own at least one.

I LOVE my refinished 1917 DWM.

Shoots great and just oozes quality- a true mechanical wonder.
So, my head says1911, but my heart says Luger.

 

[drobs]

I should've never sold my Walther P1. I picked it up at the tail end when they were cheap. It's a fun to shoot gun. Shell casings eject to the left.

 

[bannockburn]

I have had several P38s and P1s, along with one P4 made by Manurhin (should have held on to that one). Currently I have one P1, a Manurhin, that was part of a contract made for the West Berlin Police force. It's double action trigger pull is quite long and somewhat heavy. It shows a marked preference for 124 gr. and 147 gr. ammo.

 

[Mosin77]

In my opinion the 1911 and the Hi Power have it over all the others for pure range enjoyment. Something about a heavy steel recoil-absorbing gun that has a good to great trigger, a single stack frame to fit the hand, and good sights. But the old ones are very cool from a standpoint of history. I don’t dislike shooting a Luger but I think from a tactile point of view the P38 is better. But, I’d say the Luger is more trustworthy, as strange as it sounds. I’m scared to take a P38 apart beyond field stripping, and I’m always a little nervous that an original part may break. A Luger I can almost take apart in my sleep. Get a mismatched gun so you don’t feel guilty taking it to the range.

 

[drobs]

Adding another P1 back into the collection:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/955845777

 

[Rudolph31]

I’m scared to take a P38 apart beyond field stripping, and I’m always a little nervous that an original part may break. A Luger I can almost take apart in my sleep. Get a mismatched gun so you don’t feel guilty taking it to the range.

I have a WWII Walther PP that has had a broken firing pin, broken safety, and just recently a bit of the underside of the slide has broken off. I won’t be shooting it anymore, I think the metal has crystallized.

As for mismatched Lugers, I wouldn’t recommend it. I’d heard Lugers had terrible triggers, and shooting a friend’s seemed to confirm that. But his was a mixmaster. When I bought my own, numbers matching Luger, the trigger pull was target gun quality. All of those parts were serialized for a reason. Some German spent hours with a file making them fit perfectly.