Motodeficient
Member
I am planning on buying a saiga rifle soon. The question is, do I buy it in 7.62x39 or .223? What would you get?
Want to buy a Saiga.... 7.62x39 or .223?
- Thread starter Motodeficient
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scorpiostang
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just bought 2 weeks ago in 7.62x39, waiting for compliance parts and what not. If your thinking of .223 why not 5.45x39? That was what I went looking for but found a decent priced 7.62x39 with dimples and figured why not have my first ak the way it was made. Can't comment on performance yet.
RockyMtnTactical
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It depends, but for me, I think it's easier to go 7.62x39 with the AK.
THE DARK KNIGHT
Member
Go with 7.62x39 or 5.45x39.
Reason being, they can be cheaply converted to accept AK-47 or AK-74 magazines which are very cheap. Going the .223 route can also accept standard magazines, but you're looking at pricey Saiga or Galil magazines, or also the costly conversion to AR-15 mags. Then again you might be able to find cheap steel galil nagazines for the .223.
But I find 7.62x39 to be a more effective round for short range which is what the AK platform is for anyway.
I have/had all three of these calibers.
Reason being, they can be cheaply converted to accept AK-47 or AK-74 magazines which are very cheap. Going the .223 route can also accept standard magazines, but you're looking at pricey Saiga or Galil magazines, or also the costly conversion to AR-15 mags. Then again you might be able to find cheap steel galil nagazines for the .223.
But I find 7.62x39 to be a more effective round for short range which is what the AK platform is for anyway.
I have/had all three of these calibers.
7.62x39. Ammo and magazines are cheap and relatively plentiful. 5.45 is another option if you prefer the .22-cal route. Only hassle with the 5.45 is the politically sensitive ammo supply, since all of it is imported from Russia.
Also as Dark Knight pointed out, the 7.62x39 round is going to have a bit more Ooomph for short to medium range shooting. Makes for a usable brush and deer gun, if the need or desire arises.
Also as Dark Knight pointed out, the 7.62x39 round is going to have a bit more Ooomph for short to medium range shooting. Makes for a usable brush and deer gun, if the need or desire arises.
wally
Member
+1 to 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 because of the magazine issues with AKs in .223.
--wally.
Bulgarian surplus is available as well.
--wally.
ColtraneM3
Member
7.62x39
It's traditional, powerful, cheap, and fun! Can't go wrong.
It's traditional, powerful, cheap, and fun! Can't go wrong.
rangerruck
Member
right now, the 762 ammo cost is starting to drop like a stone. Academy is selling back in the 5 dollar range, and I think Cheaperthandirt, had it back in the high3 or 4 dollar range.
but forget all of that, get some silver bear hollow point ammo, the Saiga is likely to drop them in the same hole at 50 yards, and it is a very good round.
but forget all of that, get some silver bear hollow point ammo, the Saiga is likely to drop them in the same hole at 50 yards, and it is a very good round.
Motodeficient
Member
Thanks everyone, sounds like 7.62x39 is the way to go. This will be my first rifle other than a ruger 10/22
Col. Plink
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I say .308
(get an SKS for 7.62x39, you'll never miss the supposed lack of accuracyin that round)
(get an SKS for 7.62x39, you'll never miss the supposed lack of accuracyin that round)
No real mag issues with any .223 Saigas. Surefires, Bulgarians, Galils all work fine. Some minor fitting maybe, add a bullet guide, but no real problems.
5.45 will need an bullet guide to reliably feed, even though they will take mil surp AK-74 mags
7.62 will also need bullet guide to feed well, unless factory or Surefires are used.
5.45 will need an bullet guide to reliably feed, even though they will take mil surp AK-74 mags
7.62 will also need bullet guide to feed well, unless factory or Surefires are used.
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SSN Vet
Member
my ol' Gaffer always did say...
"commie calibers for commie guns"
x39 would be (and was) my choice....
no regrets...
but whatever you do....
get the 16" barell!!!
"commie calibers for commie guns"
x39 would be (and was) my choice....
no regrets...
but whatever you do....
get the 16" barell!!!
OrangePwrx9
Member
If you're a reloader, the .223 Saiga will mutilate the brass less. Reloading for it will be possible. My .223 Saiga seems to be slightly more accurate and pleasant to shoot than my x39s.
The 7.62x39 Saigas do a number on the brass at the case neck-shoulder junction. I've experienced extensive cracking in this area with reloads...so I don't reload for them anymore. OTOH, milsurp magazines are cheap, easy to find and will work in an x39 Saiga after minor modification.
Both are good guns. You won't go wrong with either.
The 7.62x39 Saigas do a number on the brass at the case neck-shoulder junction. I've experienced extensive cracking in this area with reloads...so I don't reload for them anymore. OTOH, milsurp magazines are cheap, easy to find and will work in an x39 Saiga after minor modification.
Both are good guns. You won't go wrong with either.
wally
Member
As long as you ignore their cost compared to the surplus $8-10 AK47 or $12-15 AK-74 mags. Thats the main issue, the "minor" fitting is fine as long as you expect to use them in only in your one gun.
The 7.62x39 Saiga comblock AK47 mag mod is to the gun. Once you've installed the bullet guide you would be good to go except the mag catch on the 7.62x39 Saiga is a couple of mm too long -- just file it down and stop as soon as one of the steel surplus AK47 mags locks in smoothly. Didn't have this issue with the AK74 mags in my 5.45x39 Saiga conversion.
--wally.
Col. Plink
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SSN Vet: I have a Saiga308 in the long barrel, is there an accuracy issue with these? (you mentioned being sure to get the 16" bbl; longer not better in the accuracy dept?) Thanks!
SMGreen
Member
I went with the 7.62x39 for my Saiga. I save my .223 ammo for my AR-15s. You won't be disappointed with either though. Saigas are really nice! I haven't had a single problem with it thus far.
Motodeficient
Member
So is a converted saiga nice than your average WASR-10 AK47? Just wondering, because once you convert it you could have easily bought an AK
SMGreen
Member
In my opinion, I feel that every penny spent on the Saiga was justified. I'm very, very pleased with the rifle. It hasn't given me any grief whatsoever.
Here again, I also like my WASR-10. You might have a hard time finding a nice WASR though. If you go that route, my personal advice is to inspect it in person before you buy. Check the sights, make sure the gas block isn't canted (tilted one way or the other) and that the magazine doesn't wabble. If you buy one online, you're asking for a headache.
Having an average Saiga and a nice WASR-10, I'd still keep the Saiga if I could only keep one.
Here again, I also like my WASR-10. You might have a hard time finding a nice WASR though. If you go that route, my personal advice is to inspect it in person before you buy. Check the sights, make sure the gas block isn't canted (tilted one way or the other) and that the magazine doesn't wabble. If you buy one online, you're asking for a headache.
Having an average Saiga and a nice WASR-10, I'd still keep the Saiga if I could only keep one.
Also, as far as Saigas go, the new SGL21 imports from Arsenal are they way to go, if you want as authentic to the ak-47 gun as possible. They are the ye-ol' Ak-47 of IzMash origin already in normal configuration, no tinkering, bullet guides, dremling, or grinding off spot-welds required. For $550 you get a real Russian-built AK that is already in AK rather than hunting rifle configuration. Then you can use surplus mags without any worry of them fitting 'right' right out of the box. Of course, this only applies the the 7.62x39 and the 5.45x39 offerings. Also Atlantic Firearms (one of the distributors of said guns) offers a discount to THR members.
Also as OrangePwrx9 said, one of the 'features' of the SGL21 saiga's is a grove in the chamber to 'stamp' brass to indicate it was fired from a civilian firearm. End result is the brass becomes basically non-re-loadable. The 5.45 uses a ring around the firing pin for the same purpose.
With the .223 or .308 you're back to using aftermarket mags that are bit pricier than the milsurp stuff.
As for 5.45x39 being politically sensitive, I was referring to any possible new bans on import of ammunition from abroad, regardless of country of origin. With 7.62x39 at least there is some domestic production from the likes of Federal and Winchester.
Also as OrangePwrx9 said, one of the 'features' of the SGL21 saiga's is a grove in the chamber to 'stamp' brass to indicate it was fired from a civilian firearm. End result is the brass becomes basically non-re-loadable. The 5.45 uses a ring around the firing pin for the same purpose.
With the .223 or .308 you're back to using aftermarket mags that are bit pricier than the milsurp stuff.
As for 5.45x39 being politically sensitive, I was referring to any possible new bans on import of ammunition from abroad, regardless of country of origin. With 7.62x39 at least there is some domestic production from the likes of Federal and Winchester.
QUOTE: As long as you ignore their cost compared to the surplus $8-10 AK47 or $12-15 AK-74 mags. Thats the main issue, the "minor" fitting is fine as long as you expect to use them in only in your one gun.
How many mags are you gonna buy for one rifle? I don't see '47 mags that cheap, maybe $15-20 around here...nor '74 mags cheaper than $20. Aimsurplus had them for $20, now they're out. And yes, I only expect to use them in one rifle. KVAR has Bulgarians and Numrich has Galils, both for around $30. If you like steel, go with Weigers for $30. Lots of choices.
QUOTE: Didn't have this issue with the AK74 mags in my 5.45x39 Saiga conversion.
'74 mags will lock up fine in the Saiga, but won't reliably feed without the guide. So sez me and several folks on the Saiga forum. I did some extensive testing with available ammo, even some home-made HPs from FMJs.
The Bulgarian WASP or Russian 7N6 are the only effective rounds in 5.45x39 and although accurate, they are corrosive. If I could find Barnaul 55 soft point, I might reconsider the '74.
As for the .223, load up on steel case Wolf 75hp (very accurate) and Silver Bear/Brown Bear 62 SP/HP and forget the brass. BTW, a strip of door molding from AutoZone will fix dinging brass issue. The Saiga in 223 has better long range accuracy than the x39 and is just as effective if not more, at distance, IMO.
How many mags are you gonna buy for one rifle? I don't see '47 mags that cheap, maybe $15-20 around here...nor '74 mags cheaper than $20. Aimsurplus had them for $20, now they're out. And yes, I only expect to use them in one rifle. KVAR has Bulgarians and Numrich has Galils, both for around $30. If you like steel, go with Weigers for $30. Lots of choices.
QUOTE: Didn't have this issue with the AK74 mags in my 5.45x39 Saiga conversion.
'74 mags will lock up fine in the Saiga, but won't reliably feed without the guide. So sez me and several folks on the Saiga forum. I did some extensive testing with available ammo, even some home-made HPs from FMJs.
The Bulgarian WASP or Russian 7N6 are the only effective rounds in 5.45x39 and although accurate, they are corrosive. If I could find Barnaul 55 soft point, I might reconsider the '74.
As for the .223, load up on steel case Wolf 75hp (very accurate) and Silver Bear/Brown Bear 62 SP/HP and forget the brass. BTW, a strip of door molding from AutoZone will fix dinging brass issue. The Saiga in 223 has better long range accuracy than the x39 and is just as effective if not more, at distance, IMO.
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chris in va
Member
I have the x39 model. Runs great, zero malfunctions...as to be expected. Conversion cost me about $150 in parts. And yes, get the 16" barrel. If you do the conversion be sure to get the 'Warsaw' length stock...the NATO one is just to friggin long.
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