Want to see what the Hi Power COULD have looked like?

[BHPshooter]

This, my friends, is what the Hi Power project looked like when JMB last touched it and filed it for patent status.

Be warned: this could cause nightmares.

http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid...ageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=4533A09DE164

I put this here mainly just because I thought it was interesting, but also since many people have come to call the BHP one of the most aesthetically pleasing guns.

As you've heard it before, the way around a patent (the 1911) is NOT a straight line.

Sooo... Let's hear it for Dieudonne Saive!!!

Wes

 

[WonderNine]

Had to use Quicken's updater to be able to see that.....

Well, that's certainly an eye opener....

Is not really surprising though. The patent date says 1923, when did JMB die? I'm too lazy to google it...

I still wonder why he abandoned the 1911 trigger. And if the grip safety on the 1911 was really his idea why was it already abandoned by him in 1923 or earlier? I still have a sneaking suspicion that the grip safety was solely the Army's idea.

 

[HeavyHaul]

John Moses Browning 1855-1926
I believe that you are right, the grip safety was a requirement of the Army.


Bill

 

[Triad]

The pics aren't showing up for me. How can I fix that?

 

[BluesBear]

Has there ever been any evidence unearthed that says that John Browning thought the P35 was better than the 1911?

Could he have not just been trying to design something that was different?
According to the patent drawings it didn't have an external hammer either.

If you have ever researched patents, the drawings are often vastly different from the finalized product. The drawings only need explain the design points that are being patented.

Browning could have intended to have a grip safety as on the 1911 but perhaps chose to omit it from the patent because there might not be a need for it. Possibly including it may have only complicated the drawing.
(notice I used the words could, perhaps, might, possibly and may because the preceeding paragraph is merely supposition and is not to be interpreted as factual)

 

[Tamara]

According to the patent drawings it didn't have an external hammer either.

'S'matter of fact, it looks to be... *gasp!* ...striker-fired!

 

[BryanP]

Unfortunately the search appears to have expired so the link no longer works. Digging around looking now but if someone could post a new link that would be helpful.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

If you follow the instructions, click on FULL TEXT, and then, when it doesn't work, clik on IMAGES, you'll see what you weren't able to see.

 

[BryanP]

Ah, that worked nicely, thanks. And since others said they couldn't view the images at all due to plugin issues I'll go ahead and post the 2 images (they're small).

 

[BryanP]

And the 2nd one.

 

[Boats]

I happen to think of the current BHP as a fairly ugly creation anyways, one that hammer bites the shooter relatively easily. The patent wouldn't have changed the ugliness and would have eliminated the hammer bite. Too bad.

 

[liliysdad]

I find the 1935 HP to be one of the most beautiful handguns ever created. Awesome ergonomics, graceful lines. It will be my next handgun purchase, albeit most like;y in el cheapo FEG or Charles Daly mode.

 

[Marcus]

OMG it looks like that hideous new Magnum Research "thing"! GET IT AWAY GET IT AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Marcus

 

[BHPshooter]

BryanP - Thanks for pisting the pics, I couldn't get them to save.

Has there ever been any evidence unearthed that says that John Browning thought the P35 was better than the 1911?

J.M. Browning didn't live long enough to ever see the P35 as it ended up.

Could he have not just been trying to design something that was different?
According to the patent drawings it didn't have an external hammer either.

While the HP project was under development for French service pistol trials, the 1911 was still under patent protection. The 1911 patents ended in 1928, I believe, and then the Hi Power as we know it began to take shape. [the Browning-Saive model of 1928]

Here is a good site on the HP development: http://hp35.netfirms.com/history/history.htm

Wes

EDIT: The link I just included, I've discovered, is not entirely accurate. In it, it states that JMB went to FN to have his pistols built because Colt wasn't interested in making any autopistols. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[BryanP]

BryanP - Thanks for pisting the pics, I couldn't get them to save.

No prob. Since it uses the quicktime plugin for some silly reason you can't just right-click and save. I did a screen-grab and pasted to a graphics program, crop & save.

 

[striker3]

In it, it states that JMB went to FN to have his pistols built because Colt wasn't interested in making any autopistols.

Didn't he break away from Winchester because they wouldn't produce his Auto-5 shotgun? He then went to Europe where FN picked him and his design up. At least they got the FN part right...

 

[stans]

Well, it does look a little more aerodynamic! Otherwise, all I can say is: AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHH!

 

[Dr.Rob]

Looks very Belgian.

 

[JNewell]

The Winchester-JMB parting of ways was over the structure of their arrangement. Winchester had purchased Browning's designs (his patents) outright. When he brought them the Auto 5, he wanted royalties rather than an outright payment. Winchester wouldn't do that, and he took the design elsewhere and that ended their relationship.

The episode was extra painful for Winchester designers because they'd helped Browning define the key patents in a way that was intended to make it difficult for competitors to manufacture a usable autoloading shotgun. TC Johnson eventually engineered his way around Browning's patents, but the result (the 1911) was not a very competitive performer. Johnson's work with pump shotguns had considerably longer legs.