WANTED: hot 9mm loads for 147gr JHPs

Status
Not open for further replies.
6

680x0

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
53
Location
Twin Cities, MN
Hi,

I've been loading .357 for awhile but just recieved a USP9 fullsize and decided to start loading 9mm. I've got a new set of Lee dies and 500 golden sabers and 100 silvertips both 147 grain. The only pistol powders I have right now are Unique and 231, but I'm running low on Unique so I'll probably pick up some more powder too. I'd like to load the sabers fairly hot and keep some of them for carry ammo, and maybe try loading the silvertips even hotter. The size of these bullets prevent me from stuffing as much unique in there as I'd like to, so I'll probably have to go with another powder anyway to get the power I'm looking for (+p+ range). So... anyone have a good recipe?
 
hot 9s

Hey 680!

How hot do you want to go? Unique or Universal Clays at 3.5 gr. under a 147 gr. bullet is respectable.

I have put 7.1 of AA#7 under a 147 LSWC for 1120 fps. You might want to back off a little a nd work up if using those jacketed bullets.

VV N350 will get you up there too, but I disremember the charge needed. I think it's published, though.

Cheers,

Norm
 
Take a look at Power Pistol and 800X if you want to push the 147's. Beware 800X meters like rocks, but it will probably push the bullets you have faster than anything else while maintaining safe pressures. Ramshot Sillhoutte (sp?) might be another but it is VERY hard to find.

DON'T push the 231 very hard. It turns nasty quickly.
 
Yeah, I figured the 231 couldn't get get the FPS I wanted without becoming dangerous. Maybe I'll pick up some Power Pistol...

I'd like to see if I can get it around 1200fps :D
 
I attempted this using the old Vihtavuori data (147gr @ 1152fps, 36,300psi) using VV-3N37, but could not reproduce their results. I think I ended up with only about 1050fps. This was in a full-size CZ-75.

-z
 
Well, no VV there so I picked up some 800X. The manufacturer's website doesn't have loads for 147 gr. bullets, anyone have a load for this?
 
LEE Modern reloading lists 147 grain jacketed with an OAL of 1.130" with a start charge weight of 4.7g of IMR 800-X and a max of 5.3g for a velocity of 1025fps (velocity not listed for start load). This is supposedly 32,900 cup.

When using 800-X with 10mm it was forgiving with going over book max a bit, but I am not suggesting you do that here, only sharing info. Going +P would get you closer to your goal of 1200fps but honestly I do not think you will get there with 147s in the 9mm at safe pressures, but I could be wrong. I think VV N350 would be your best bet.

I can get about 1150fps safely with a 135g XTP and VV N350. Good luck and be safe.
 
The primary difference between .38S and 9x19 is the case OAL. The problem with 9x19 is that it's just not long enough. If you have mags that can feed 9mm rounds "loaded long" to .38S or 9x23 lengths, and good casehead support, you can probably do it. That's what "Major 9" in IPSC is all about.

Using the same method, IPSC shooters shooting .40SW usually load almost to 10mm lengths and get the commesurate increase in velocity. If you took one of their long .40SW IPSC loads, seated the bullet to .40SW MAX OAL (around 1.130, right?), it would definitely be overpressure and dangerous.

-z
 
I've loaded fifty up with 5.0 gr of 800x and an OAL of 1.135 (same as my factory golden sabers) and the powder was so compressed I didn't dare go any further. I'll try em at the range this weekend and check for signs of stress, but I think it'll be fine. I'll try and pickup some VV while I'm out as I'll be closer to a different gunshop. I wonder how companies like COR BON get those bullets moving so fast... do binary mixtures or factory powder work that much better than off-the-shelf varieties?

Anyway, thats for all the good info :D
 
For God's sake, increase your OAL!

Go out as far as will run through your mags and will chamber and fall out of your gun's chamber freely.

Using Speer Gold Dots, I can run out to around 1.160" before they start to "stick". I aim for 1.150" for some reliability margin.

The old, fast & hot VV loads were at 1.142"

-z
 
All other things equal, increasing OAL will decrease the pressure. Since you are try to achieve an "over full power" load, this would be a good idea.

Just make sure the ogive doesn't catch on the rifling and they feed through your mags.

-z
 
Ok, I'll try making em a bit longer. I'm guessing the pressure won't be high enough to make my first loads dangerous, right? If that Lee info is correct, hopefully, I won't be wearing my slide as a hat.
 
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

If you are a load book fundamentalist, and want the hottest 147 gr. JHP load in a book, then Vihtavuori 1st edition: 9x21mm 4" barrel, 147 gr., 1.161", 6.6 gr. 3N37, 1227 fps 42.8kpsi is the highest velocity.

9x19mm Luger has a max length of 1.169", so the 1.161" above load is easy in a 9mm.

If you are not load book constrained, then you may find:

1) Power Pistol and 800X give the highest velocity, but 800X can be a pain to meter.

2) 3N37 and HS-6 have pressure problems with little velocity to show for it.

3) 2400, Blue Dot, AA#9, H110, and LIL'GUN run out of space in the case.

4) 158 gr. .357" XTPs are better than 147 gr. .355" XTPs in .380, 9x19mm, and 9x23mm if the barrel has the throat for it.

5) Bullets can deform, and cases can deform from compressing powder on seating. Those problems can cause a pressure spike that gives a false ceiling to the load work up. Pre compressing the powder in the case protects the bullet, but the case is still deformed. Resizing the loaded ammo will fix the case.

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.
 
So how much can you compress 800X? The IMR loadbook used 6.5 gr. of 800X with the 115 gr and 124 gr bullets, it listed the 124gr bullet's charge as being "compressed" and it had no charge data for the 147gr bullet, presumably because there isn't enough space for a proper charge? Looks like I'll have to increase the OAL no matter what I do.
 
The ball powder like H110 and AA#9 has a high bulk modulus [compresses little].
800X is a flake powder and has a low bulk modulus [compresses allot].

A trick for getting more powder in is double compression.
Fill the case with powder, and seat a bullet that is in a collet bullet puller.
Pull the bullet [lift the press handle back up].
Add more powder to the case.
Seat the real bullet in another press with a seater die.
This way, more than a case full of powder is loaded.
 
Never seen that trick before!

Thanks for the tip, I'll try getting the OAL close to 1.150 and compressing the crap out of the 800x. I'll let ya'll know how it goes this weekend after I range test 'em :)
 
Oh, I just found a box of 102 gr. goldensabers that I got for my .380 Sphinx. I suppose I could get these boys going pretty fast. Should I use a faster burning powder for a bullet this light? 3N37 looks pretty good in Lee's book.
 
OLD TRICK

Momentarily set your filled cases against the side of your vibratory case cleaner; the vibs settle the powder charge.
Then stuff in more.

3N37, N105.......and tight chamber.

Major Nine = oops! comes quickly LOL
I am there.........


".....still echoing....."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

balderclev
  • Locked
Unique recipes for 147 gr 9mm
Replies
3
Views
782
RussellC
R
W
  • Locked
Xtreme 147gr 9mm Unique load needed
Replies
2
Views
1K
Walkalong
Walkalong
balderclev
  • Locked
9mm 147gr Remington golden saber
Replies
12
Views
2K
Dudedog
Dudedog
H
  • Locked
Remington Golden Saber 185 gr loads
Replies
4
Views
2K
Steve C
S
M
  • Locked
Suggestions for a new load w/ golden sabers?
Replies
1
Views
361
Steve C
S
Back
Top