Warning 9mm Remington & Winchester

[Sky]

Went to Larry's Gun Range today and thought I would pass along some stuff I found there.

Yesterday shooting Winchester and Remington 9mm ammo they half way filled a 32 oz coffee cup with both manufactures rounds that would not fire. This has been getting worse over the last few months. Usually 5000 round blocks are purchased every couple of weeks. Today I saw 5 out of approx twenty rounds not shoot in two separate 9mm Glocks. These were Winchester.

AK-47 firing pin (typical, gun had not been cleaned in over two years) stuck in the bolt causing it to go full auto, slam fire. The only reason I bring this up it is a good idea to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction when bolt is released chambering a round in anything. This has been mentioned on other threads but I feel it is worth mentioning again.

Rumor has it Wolf brand Ammo might be using a firing cap that has a time limit (less than a year) on it's ability to fire. This is only a rumor but has anyone info on the primer or heard this? Some have just started having problems with stored ammo.

A guy brought his new Mini-14 out and tried to shoot it but every shot the gun would jam or miss feed. Larry took some Breakfree clp and did his secret fix job and the guy had no further problems. I just laughed.

I was gonna buy/trade for a police 14.5 Bushmaster for my night scope. The gun is actually only for police and is stamped so but an extended flash suppressor makes it legal for us pedestrians.

I never buy unless I shoot and Larry never sells unless his customers shoot a new pistol or rifle. Brand new out of the box the thing would shoot one round and not extract the spent round. After the second time of taking a gun rod and knocking the spent shell out of the Bushmaster I got my CMMG 16" using the same mag and fired off 6 rounds 2 pops then 4 with no problems. We opened the 14.5 Bushmaster and the ejector looked normal but was not doing it's job.

I did not think the feed ramps were married up with the barrel worth a plug nickle. Anyway this Bushmaster tomorrow will get a new bolt to see if that fixes the problem. If not it will be sent back to Bushmaster to be fixed.

Larry is a gun smith and has every thing from revolvers to full auto weapons. He seems to be having more problems with stuff new out of the box these last few months than he has ever had (more new guns returned to manufacture). Could be cosmic alignment or the gun gods are mad at him but he has had a bad run these last few days/months.

This is not a thread of mine is bigger than yours nor is it about knocking a product. It is a thread of what has happened these last two days at the range. Things that make me go Hummmmmmm.

 

[killchain]

Went to Larry's Gun Range today and thought I would pass along some stuff I found there.

Yesterday shooting Winchester and Remington 9mm ammo they half way filled a 32 oz coffee cup with both manufactures rounds that would not fire. This has been getting worse over the last few months. Usually 5000 round blocks are purchased every couple of weeks. Today I saw 5 out of approx twenty rounds not shoot in two separate 9mm Glocks. These were Winchester.

So you're saying 25% of the rounds were duds? 1,000 rounds of that ammmunition was unable to fire?

Did you test it in something other than those Glocks? The way you're wring about it, it sounds like a training day at a police department or something.

AK-47 firing pin (typical, gun had not been cleaned in over two years) stuck in the bolt causing it to go full auto, slam fire. The only reason I bring this up it is a good idea to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction when bolt is released chambering a round in anything. This has been mentioned on other threads but I feel it is worth mentioning again.

+1. Especially with old riot shotguns!

Rumor has it Wolf brand Ammo might be using a firing cap that has a time limit (less than a year) on it's ability to fire. This is only a rumor but has anyone info on the primer or heard this? Some have just started having problems with stored ammo.

This rumor, like the UN gun ban treaty, is snake oil. Not only is it a rumor that's been floating around since Clinton, they haven't even figured out how to do it.

A guy brought his new Mini-14 out and tried to shoot it but every shot the gun would jam or miss feed. Larry took some Breakfree clp and did his secret fix job and the guy had no further problems. I just laughed.

"Secret fix job" meaning lubricate it? It's amazing how that works.

I was gonna buy/trade for a police 14.5 Bushmaster for my night scope. The gun is actually only for police and is stamped so but an extended flash suppressor makes it legal for us pedestrians.

So a flash hider was added to make it 16", which is civilian legal. Sounds like it was one of those "pre-bans" that says "For gov't/LE use only." I have one of those. My EOTech says that, and so do all of my magazines.

I never buy unless I shoot and Larry never sells unless his customers shoot a new pistol or rifle. Brand new out of the box the thing would shoot one round and not extract the spent round. After the second time of taking a gun rod and knocking the spent shell out of the Bushmaster I got my CMMG 16" using the same mag and fired off 6 rounds 2 pops then 4 with no problems. We opened the 14.5 Bushmaster and the ejector looked normal but was not doing it's job.

Did you scrub out the chamber real good? If this is a used rifle, it could be dirty. Also, are you shooting brass and steel cases together? If so, they will stick. Has something to do with how the steel and the brass expand, and the carbon that escapes. I don't know the exact science, I just know not to do it.

I did not think the feed ramps were married up with the barrel worth a plug nickle. Anyway this Bushmaster tomorrow will get a new bolt to see if that fixes the problem. If not it will be sent back to Bushmaster to be fixed. Larry is a gun smith and has every thing from revolvers to full auto weapons. He seems to be having more problems with stuff new out of the box these last few months than he has ever had (more new guns returned to manufacture). Could be cosmic alignment or the gun gods are mad at him but he has had a bad run these last few days/months.

Here's a good image of some examples of M4 style feed ramps. This is on ar15barrels.com

http://ar15barrels.com/tech/feedramps2.jpg

You could use this as a reference on this Bushy you're talking about.

I seriously think your problem is either mixing ammo, a dirty chamber or a bad extractor. I would scrub the crap out of the chamber, only shoot one brand of ammo through it, and see if that clears it up. And run it WET. Meaning LOTS of lube.

This is not a thread of mine is bigger than yours nor is it about knocking a product. It is a thread of what has happened these last two days at the range. Things that make me go Hummmmmmm.

 

[Sky]

Hehahahaheheheh No! New out of the box never fired Bushmaster. New federal Walmart special ammo. No mix. The girl was shooting her Glock 23 with a 9mm barrel saw her have two miss fires in one 9mm mag. Larry pulled his 9mm out and dropped his mag and reloaded it with the ammo from the 50 round box. He tried to shoot seven times with 3 no-booms. At this point Larry's blood pressure was climbing...then the Bushmaster!

Feed ramps looked to low compared to barrel position. Looked like to me the pointy end of the bullet might hit the barrel when seating. Light was not all that good where we were and Larry seemed to be about ready to vapor lock so I left and told him to call me if he got it fixed.

 

[dogtown tom]

Sky: ...they half way filled a 32 oz coffee cup...

I've lived in Texas for twenty two years and seen a few ten gallon hats.

But a half gallon coffee cup?

 

[Vonderek]

Actually 32 ounces is a quart. Not that much when you are addicted to caffeine.

 

[Sky]

Used to get 44oz Doctor Peppers from Sonic. Guess they use a different measurement system in Texas? No wonder there is talk of succession! Easier to believe 16oz but 32 was clearly spoken. Just consider me a recording device.

 

[killchain]

Hehahahaheheheh No! New out of the box never fired Bushmaster. New federal Walmart special ammo. No mix. The girl was shooting her Glock 23 with a 9mm barrel saw her have two miss fires in one 9mm mag. Larry pulled his 9mm out and dropped his mag and reloaded it with the ammo from the 50 round box. He tried to shoot seven times with 3 no-booms. At this point Larry's blood pressure was climbing...then the Bushmaster!

Feed ramps looked to low compared to barrel position. Looked like to me the pointy in of the bullet might hit the barrel when seating. Light was not all that good where we were and Larry seemed to be about ready to vapor lock so I left and told him to call me if he got it fixed.

Which model of Bushmaster is this? This an M4 style, right?

 

[dogtown tom]

Vonderek Actually 32 ounces is a quart. Not that much when you are addicted to caffeine.

I know. And those ten gallon hats don't really hold ten gallons. It's called Texas puffery.

Don't tell anyone about my attempt at sarcasm.

 

[atlp99]

Winchester White box 9mm

I have recently been noticing an issue with Winchester White box practice ammo having issues in both my pistols (H&K USP and Walter p99). I have been getting at least 1 round out of every box of 100 that will not allow the slide to fully close.
I bought 600 rounds in 100 round boxes (the most my local Walmart will sell at one time) and have had this same issue with all of it.

This is with 2 separate pistols that have been 100% reliable except for this issue and neither pistol has any issues with better quality self defense ammo (Black Hills 124 Grain +P Speer Gold Dot).

 

[Sky]

It is the for police only short barreled ( 11.5" ?)Swat rifle made legal for us none police types by affixing an extended flash suppressor to make the barrel long enough to conform someones regs on such things. I am not a Bushmaster type of guy but was gonna buy it anyway, Still planning on getting the rifle if Larry figures out what the problem is or Bushmaster fixes it. Will know something tomorrow I will ask the model number.

 

[Sky]

The only reason I was going to get the AR is for my night scope. Liked the weight and balance with everything put together.

 

[TexasGunbie]

Used to get 44oz Doctor Peppers from Sonic. Guess they use a different measurement system in Texas? No wonder there is talk of succession! Easier to believe 16oz but 32 was clearly spoken. Just consider me a recording device.

The succession is top secret! how did you find out?!

 

[whalerman]

It was posted that a young lady was having trouble with 9mm ammo in her Glock 23. Understandable, as a Glock 23 is a .40 cal weapon. Tell her to use the correct ammo and misfires will decrease. Glocks are finicky about this kind of thing.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

remington UMC has always been crappy ammo. i stopped using it a long time ago.

never had an issue with WWB, but i haven't bought it in a while since federal champion is much cheaper at chinamart.

 

[Sky]

As stated before( post #3) her Pistol was a Glock 23 with 9mm barrel and 9mm mags...Geez everything is so complicated!

 

[whalerman]

Its' not complicated at all. if you used the proper ammo, guns work a whole lot better than if you switch out barrels, magazines and ammo that doesn't. Try .40 everying in that Glock 23. Use 9mm in the Glock 17, 19, and 26. You'll be so much happier.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

^^as long as the striker hit the primers, the fact that it's a conversion would have nothing to do with it.

 

[David E]

I was gonna buy/trade for a police 14.5 Bushmaster for my night scope. The gun is actually only for police and is stamped so but an extended flash suppressor makes it legal for us pedestrians.

It is the for police only short barreled ( 11.5" ?)Swat rifle made legal for us non police types by affixing an extended flash suppressor to make the barrel long enough

It's legal ONLY if it is PERMANENTLY attached!!! IE; non-removable.

 

[Patriotme]

I shot 200 rnds of Winchester white box last week through my Kimber and XDM. No problems.
I have to doubt that Wolf ammo rumor is true. It just makes no sense. Why would a company destroy it's reputation by intentionaly putting out ammo that only lasts a year?

 

[powermad]

FWIW WWB is the only ammo that my FNP45 does not like.
Others have noted the same problems using it.

My fix was simple, stop using WWB.

 

[rcmodel]

destroy it's reputation by intentionaly putting out ammo that only lasts a year?

They wouldn't.

It takes half a year to get it here from the factory in Russia, to the importers warehouse, to the distributors warehouse, to the place that eventually sells it to the customer.

rc

 

[rfurtkamp]

It is the for police only short barreled ( 11.5" ?)Swat rifle made legal for us none police types

No such thing as 'police only' SBR made of domestic components.

Mere peasants can own them in over half the states with a $200 tax and some hoops.

 

[VinnAY]

Timed out primers...OMG the nonsense that circulates via gun paranoids. Or just more Wolf nonsense...either/or.

ftr, I shoot any old cheap'ola ammo I can get my hands on; WWB, Remington, Federal Champion, and anything that Wolf can crank out and it all goes bang. Every single time...never had a dud in any of it. Probably a few hundreds of each, 9mm, .45, 7.62, .223. XDm, PT1911, GI .45, AK, AR15.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Really folks, I've shot surplus, I shoot what ever is cheapest, and that includes WWB and UMC and....

some is stinkier, some is more accurate, some is dirtier...
do you really think a company wants the trouble of putting out a bad product, do you think police forces are going to buy ammo that expires in 5 years....

most cops would have issue, as I doubt they rotate their mags, and that would really suck when some cop gets into a fight and his bullets don't go bang because they 'expiered'

can we move out of the barnyard already, the BS is getting a little thick.

 

[Sky]

Ok the flash is permanently affixed, pinned, glued, welded, non removable. The lower is stamped for police only due to it's original length. Called this morning but was unable to get model number in that Larry was not in a position to check it out for me. Will post when I get it.

Bushmaster is stamped "for police only" could be a local thing I guess but it looked like it came from the factory that way. Again when I can will post model number.

I to have a 23c Glock and my wife and I have shot many more rounds of 9mm through it than 40 cal. Our pistol works fine with the 9mm barrel and 9mm mags and does not have the recoil of the 40 cal. We shoot .22 in our ARs also seems to work just fine. I kinda agree if firing pin hits in the right spot things are supposed to happen. Accuracy may be affected but there should be a pronounced bang and not just a click.