Warning Shots

[DougCxx]

...If you aren't prepared to take a life to protect your own, you absolutely shouldn't have a loaded weapon ready. You should concentrate on creating a reasonably strong safe room or multiple safe rooms in your house and ensuring you have a cell phone capable of dialing 911 from your bedroom....

-The matter here is not if one would take a life or not, the matter is if one would take an extra step if the circumstances were reasonable to prove to the suspect that the gun you had pointed at them was real, and loaded. As opposed to issuing a verbal command that they may not hear/understand or believe, and then start shooting. (Did you know now that warning signs are supposed to be in both English and Spanish?) Any comparisons with what police officers do is irrelevant--a uniformed police officer wouldn't have that problem because it can be generally assumed that (US) police do carry real, loaded firearms. I would most like anyone who would attempt such a thing to end up arrested, but I cannot guarantee that will happen. I would much rather prefer the outcome to be that the person was discouraged and left the area on their own without me putting holes in them, and I'd be willing to bet that any half-decent lawyer or judge would agree. "Protecting yourself and family" is not the same thing as "shooting bad guys". And once again, it sounds silly to argue that a warning shot is "wasting a round" or "might ricochet", and then say that you would put two shots "CoM".
--I insist on protecting myself, but I realize that I am not a police officer nor an executioner. I would also note that I only own rimfire guns--and mostly target-specific ones at that--and amazingly, I haven't ever bought a gun with the idea in mind that I'd ever be trying to kill another person with it.
Some of you guys sound like you are just waiting for somebody to cross that line.
~

 

[Model520Fan]

The matter here is not if one would take a life or not, the matter is if one would take an extra step if the circumstances were reasonable to prove to the suspect that the gun you had pointed at them was real, and loaded.

Not a dangerous, irresponsible step, and what makes you think the circumstances are reasonable? If they are so reasonable that you don't have to shoot, you shouldn't be doing reckless (and usually illegal) things like firing warning shots.

You've asked this question a few times, now, and a number of people have answered. I'm sorry you don't like the answer. Perhaps the question is too conceptual. Perhaps you have in mind some particular situation where you think that a warning shot would be safe, reasonable and legal. If you would describe that scenario in detail, you might get some agreement for that case.

I would still caution anyone that a good RULE (= guideline disregarded only after careful examination of ALL of the facets of the situation) would be never to fire warning shots. One rarely has time for such a careful examination at the moment of truth, hence the popularity of rules, particularly when they are so well founded.

 

[igor]

This reminds me of recruit time - in sentry training we were taught to fire a warning shot in the ground while yelling the intruder to stop, then shoot at him. That was SOP. I was one of the two recruits that could actually pull all of that off when tested with blanks at the end of the day.

And that was a heck of a Tueller Drill. The guy popped from the brush about 25 meters away and ran straight at the sentry. He was about five meters away when I got the actual shots underway in his general direction (to further confuse the situation, no firing at anyone closer than 50 meters due to problems with blank firing muzzle devices... ). No wonder that the rest of the company were all run over.

For actual duty, the SOP recommended was to shoot the guy first and then put a round to the ground, all the while yelling him to stop. Off the record, of course.

 

[Shel]

OK... just a question here, I have not had to use a gun to defend myself ever, and hopefully I wont. In my own little "home defense" plan, I never plan on using warning shots.

But my question is this... purely hypothetical, If there is an intruder, and you shoot him dead, who's to say you didnt fire a warning shot? Hit him with the first one, then fire a warning shot. Like I said, I don't think I would feel comfortable having to lie in a situation like that, but if the BG is dead, there is nobody to dispute your story.

 

[Bigjake]

the 1st shot (the 158 gr. .357 that tags him COM) was the warning...

 

[entropy]

"and amazingly, I haven't ever bought a gun with the idea in mind that I'd ever be trying to kill another person with it. "

Then why did you even comment on the topic at all? If this is the way you feel, (Not that there's anything wrong with that ) then lock your .22's in a gun safe , the ammo in a separate lockable container, and read the non lethal forum on THR.
When I was in the Army I met far too many people with a similar attitude.
*Gee, I joined the Army for the college money, I didn't think I'd ever have to shoot someone*
I can't speak for everyone here at THR, but I for one want to never have to shoot someone. I will not, however ,stand by and do nothing to prevent my death, or that of my loved ones, while I have the means to prevent that from happening. I also train for the possibility that it could happen so that if it does, I stand a much better chance of surviving than if I was not armed, and/or did not train. I will not bet my life on a BG's 'good graces' re 'letting' me live because; 1.) If he has broken into my house, and is threatening me, either verbally, or by visual display of deadly force, (gun, knife, bat, sheer physical size+violent demeanor), hecannot be trusted with my life ! and, 2.) Betting my life is exactly what I would be doing in that case. I intend to stack the deck in my favor with a well trained, armed, COMMAND PRESENCE .

 

[Carlos]

Ah, come on, let's not discuss what you will or will not do.

It's all subjective bull.

Ask yourselves, seriously, what you'll do, rather than spew nonsense.

I wouldn't necessarily say what I'll do, but I know what I will when presented with a life or death situation, I will be doing the right thing.

Training will come into play.

There will be absolutely no room for debate.

 

[Model520Fan]

But my question is this... purely hypothetical, If there is an intruder, and you shoot him dead, who's to say you didnt fire a warning shot? Hit him with the first one, then fire a warning shot. Like I said, I don't think I would feel comfortable having to lie in a situation like that, but if the BG is dead, there is nobody to dispute your story.

You need a course by Mas Ayoob, or a long discussion with a lawyer competent in defense of righteous self-defense.

You are hypothesizing that you would take a righteous shooting and add perjury to it? For what? So you can get it turned into a murder charge when your story falls apart? And what will be the lie that you tell? That you did something stupid and possibly illegal like firing a warning shot, instead of just defending yourself? This is not smart.

Don't take my word for it. Go ask an experienced lawyer.

 

[Shel]

as previously mentioned, I wouldn't do it myself... I was just saying, what's to keep somebody from it?

Myself, I would empty the entire magazine on the BG.

 

[Model520Fan]

but if the BG is dead, there is nobody to dispute your story.

Don't be so sure of that.

Lying may be one of the stupidest things you can do, considering the low cost of saying nothing at all.

 

[LASur5r]

Let me see

Let's see....
Hmmm, the BG's are already in your house. They've broken into your domain and your life and the lives of your family is at stake.
Yup, seems like it calls for a warning shot time for me.
Since we are not required to retreat in our state...I vote for warning shots to the COM.
Remember, your warning shot flash from the muzzle will alert the Home Invader as to where you are. If they are armed....they might just key in on your warning shot and open fire. Anybody else around you or behind you in a room? They get hit with that fusillade aimed at you. Good luck with your warning shot.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Model520Fan, I believe that altering evidence and lying to the cops is a felony. Far too many people think there are no other witnesses. How do you know for certain there are no other bad guys? How do you know a neighbor didn't see the break-in, rushed to your home, heard the first shot, then to be safe and not rush in, was checking at a window when he saw you fixing the crime scene?

It is harder to justify a shooting when folks know you have lied.

As with those who have said it, the warning shot, when fired, should be COM. In Texas, we don't have to retreat either and home intruders are considered life threatening in the sense lethal force can be used.

Never count on there being just one intruder.