Guy Fires Warning Shot, Gets 20 Years

[Arizona_Mike]

The last "warning shot" discussion was about a woman who walked to the garage, got her gun, walked back into the house and fired (I think at her boyfriend's head) while he was standing next to kids (I think accidentally missing).

In this case Lee Wollard was pissed that a boyfriend was picking up his daughter up after hours. Claims there was an argument. Claims the BF punched a hole in the wall and then lunged at him (disputed). The jury heard the evidence.

Mike

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Wait... didn't Florida just pass a warning shot law this summer?
How are they going to pass a law allowing for warning shots, then prosecute a guy for firing a warning shot? Seems like a set up, since they charged him with a litany of other crimes and not attempted murder or whatever.

They passed a law that allows non-lethal presentation or firing of a gun in situations where lethal force is justified. Some insist on calling it a "warning shot" bill . . .

 

[rdhood]

Do not fire a warning shot.

But Uncle Joe Biden TOLD us that is what we should do!!!

 

[g.willikers]

quotes from the judge saying he didn't want to do it, or whatever, but the oath he took required him to.

That sounds too much like "I was just following orders."

 

[Warp]

Warp, would what the woman in your story did be called a "warning shot?" The attack was already underway and she shot to stop it. I am not a lawyer, but I think she used justifiable lethal force (that was not lethal in this instance) to stop an attack.

Yes, that is a warning shot.

She fired a shot and it was not intended to hit anybody or anything.

Not that there is a universal, technical, legal definition of 'warning shot' that I am aware of, but I have come to believe that a shot fired which is not intended to hit somebody (or something, like a car tire or whatever), is a warning shot.

But it seems some people only call it a warning shot if lethal force is not presently justified and...I don't know what, but something else...if lethal force was reasonably believed to be justified at the time.

 

[Ryanxia]

But Uncle Joe Biden TOLD us that is what we should do!!!

You would think if the United States government (Joe Biden) instructed citizens to do something that would have some bearing on the case or at least give him some liability being a representative of our government. But no comrade, don't listen to our words, just pour over the millions of pages of laws to find out if you are living within the law or not. Either way, we'll get ya.

 

[Warp]

You would think if the United States government (Joe Biden) instructed citizens to do something that would have some bearing on the case or at least give him some liability being a representative of our government. But no comrade, don't listen to our words, just pour over the millions of pages of laws to find out if you are living within the law or not. Either way, we'll get ya.

Back when I was a Criminal Justice student we were taught that that is precisely how it worked. When we went over justifications and excuses and what not, being told that you could by the government/person in a position of authority that you would reasonably believe, etc etc I forget the exact wording, was there. Not many positions of authority higher than Vice President of the United States.

Of course, in the real world there are the privileged and then there are the plebeians

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

I am having great difficulty trying to determine why we should give a... well pile of previously digested and excreted food stuffs.

Reading up on this situation, the guy perfectly followed the book on how to screw up a situation. No calls to the cops when involved in a hostile confrontation. Escalates the confrontation by going to get a gun. Uses lethal force when it's not appropriate, then completely fails to call the cops and report the use of lethal force.

Meh, whatever. Dude belongs in jail.

20 years too much? Next time use a taser.

 

[SilentStalker]

Years ago, I sat through a seminar by Bill Jordan in which he specifically stated that warning shots were a no no!
Dan

Here is the problem, its a lose lose situation no matter which way you go. I think at times a warning shot could certainly serve to deter those that might otherwise continue with whatever they had planned to do. See something or get threatened, fire a warning shot, perp lives to see another day and you go home. I can see the argument for sure. On the other-hand, some people believe if you have time to fire a warning shot you really weren't threatened enough, otherwise you would have shot to stop the threat instead of firing a warning shot. Thats fine when it is warranted and you can prove it but if you do that then they will complain that your actions were too violent and that you should have avoided shooting at all. Next, you will most likely be sued by the family of the perp and drug through some legal BS where you have to spend your life savings to stay out of jail. Either way you look at it its BS. There needs to be a clean cut either you can use them for defense or not.

Just like the people in Ferguson or whatever now screaming that the off duty police officer that shot and killed a teen last night was too violent in his actions. That is ridiculous. The kid had a gun on him and was firing at the officer and the officer returned fire. its that simple. I would have responded the same way the cop did. These people are just plain stupid by their logic and you can't fix stupid. That much is obvious.

 

[Bobson]

Reading up on this situation, the guy perfectly followed the book on how to screw up a situation. No calls to the cops when involved in a hostile confrontation. Escalates the confrontation by going to get a gun. Uses lethal force when it's not appropriate, then completely fails to call the cops and report the use of lethal force.

Meh, whatever. Dude belongs in jail.

Yeah, the guy's a moron; that's been sufficiently established throughout the thread, and I don't disagree. Still, that's a piss-poor reason to get 20 years in prison.

There are convicted murderers and rapists who get less than that. You gotta be at least as dumb as the guy in question to be able to call this justice.

 

[NOMI WASP]

Doesn't a warning shot mean you missed? Oh and the person who meantioned a tasser, give me a break. I watched cops the other night and they tassered a guy multiple times and he didn't even blink.

Don't depend on tassers and OC to save your life. This guy was giving 2 LARGE officers all they could handle and he wasn't much more than 160 lbs.

 

[HoosierQ]

In my opinion, the issue here is the mandatory sentence part. All of those are bogus. Conviction? I think the man probably really did commit a crime at least as far as the statutes are concerned. Should have taken the deal I guess. He'd be free and that's a whole lot more than just "something".

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

There are convicted murderers and rapists who get less than that. You gotta be at least as dumb as the guy in question to be able to call this justice.

You caught me. I'm dumb. derp derp derp, duh, derp.

Are you sure that the real issue isn't actually that murderers and rapists are getting out too soon and not that people wantonly discharging firearms outside the scope of legal protections are spending too much time in jail?

And as a retort to the concept that this person deserves some extra consideration because he or we can't cope with the legally encoded punishment set for the crime he committed:



Protest the law before the punishment is handed down, or else it just looks like a case of wanting the set punishments to only apply to the "real criminals"

Oh wait... this guy is the real criminal.

Oh and the person who meantioned a tasser, give me a break. I watched cops the other night and they tassered a guy multiple times and he didn't even blink.

Well holy hell, I'm sorry. I didn't realize you watched COPs the other night. That's right up there with staying in certain brands of hotels for making you a subject mater expert.

I'll just go hang up my rig now, the experts have arrived. You can have my badge and patrol boots.

 

[stchman]

Didn't Papa Joe tell people to shoot in the air to scare off the bad guys. The guy should have said he was only doing what Joe Biden said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIuk3G9Xixc

 

[itsa pain]

I am having great difficulty trying to determine why we should give a... well pile of previously digested and excreted food stuffs.

Reading up on this situation, the guy perfectly followed the book on how to screw up a situation. No calls to the cops when involved in a hostile confrontation. Escalates the confrontation by going to get a gun. Uses lethal force when it's not appropriate, then completely fails to call the cops and report the use of lethal force.

Meh, whatever. Dude belongs in jail.

20 years too much? Next time use a taser.

I guess you are a cop who thinks everyone is guilty unless another cop gets caught doing something illegal. I never understood why so many cops who think everyone is guilty haunt gun forums. Are they looking for statements of illegal activity?

 

[itsa pain]

That sounds too much like "I was just following orders."

That phony judge and all the other ones have probably let go tens of thousands of illegals. Then their "oath" doesn't matter that much. All of a sudden in this case he follows the letter of the law

 

[Midwest]

Didn't Papa Joe tell people to shoot in the air to scare off the bad guys. The guy should have said he was only doing what Joe Biden said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIuk3G9Xixc

Yea, but Joe said use a shotgun.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/19/Biden-shotguns-Facebook


"I said, 'Jill, if there's ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here ... walk out and put that double-barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house.’ … You don't need an AR-15 — it's harder to aim, it's harder to use, and in fact you don't need 30 rounds to protect yourself. Buy a shotgun! Buy a shotgun!"
.

 

[stchman]

Yea, but Joe said use a shotgun.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/19/Biden-shotguns-Facebook


"I said, 'Jill, if there's ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here ... walk out and put that double-barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house.’ … You don't need an AR-15 — it's harder to aim, it's harder to use, and in fact you don't need 30 rounds to protect yourself. Buy a shotgun! Buy a shotgun!"
.

True, but Papa Joe was telling people to fire what amounts to a warning shot.

 

[WestKentucky]

What (legally) are the differences between a miss and a warning shot? If a man has legal reason to fire any shot at all and it stops the threat whether hit or miss it's a clean shoot. I'm just wondering how this would have went had he "missed" the guy but the guy immediately stopped any aggressive behavior. I know nothing of this particular case so this thought may be totally irrelevant.

 

[Kleanbore]

The term "warning shot", in this case, is entirely irrelevant.

The man fired his gun into a building in the presence of others without a basis for lawful justification--period.

 

[Warp]

Are you sure that the real issue isn't actually that murderers and rapists are getting out too soon and not that people wantonly discharging firearms outside the scope of legal protections are spending too much time in jail?

It isn't either or.

It is both.

 

[Mousegun]

But ossifer, it wasn't a warning shot, I simply missed the man that was threatening my life and he ran away.

 

[valnar]

This might be a topic for a new thread, but is there anything you CAN do without going to jail for 20 years? Can you brandish a gun to scare off the intruder without having to kill him or shoot a warning shot? What about announcing you have a gun before showing them?

 

[burk]

The reality is if firing a shot is not justified, I can't see how any discharging of a firearm could be. Almost all of the rules for justifying a shooting apply to almost any presentation of a firearm. If you present a firearm with the admonition of if you do some action I will use it, that is considered a criminal act in most jurisdictions. Presenting the firearm itself has to be justifiable, much less discharging it. In other words if you don't fear for your life don't even draw your weapon. Because if someone sees you pull a gun because you "have a bad feeling about a situation" you might very well be seen as the person who escalated the situation and threatened someone with a firearm.

OTOH, If the cops ask, I missed.

 

[Warp]

This might be a topic for a new thread, but is there anything you CAN do without going to jail for 20 years? Can you brandish a gun to scare off the intruder without having to kill him or shoot a warning shot? What about announcing you have a gun before showing them?

In this case I do not believe there was an intruder.

Totally different scenario.