We cry about ammo prices...

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Aaryq

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Howdy folks. We all cry about ammo prices just like we cry about gas prices. It will happen.

My question is WHY ARE AMMO PRICES CLIMBING?

I put it in caps to draw your eyes to it. I'm not trying to abuse my "capslock privliges."

Thanks

Semper fi.
 
The international price of lead has increased 300% in the last six months, 500 percent in the last three years.
Copper rose 50% this year, it has risen 350% in the last four years.
Zinc has risen 300% in the last three years.

Copper is in high demand in China as they industrialise. A billion people who had nothing ten years ago are dreaming of a middle class existance. Think of the amount of copper wireing required for all of America's homes, all of the power transmission cables, all of the electronic goods, then multiply that by three and compress it into 20 years instead of 100. Chinese demand is driving the copper market sky high.

Zinc is used in diecasting and for coating sheet metal. As China becomes the worlds supplier of manufactured goods, zinc demand has gone up.

Don't forget the demands of the war in Iraq. the US government is burning through stockpiles of ammunition and contracting with suppliers who normally would provide the retail market to replace this ammo, this creates a supply shortage as capacity is taken up by government contracts.

Thus the cost of ammo has gone up, and probably will continue to do so.
 
More ammo production lines (supply) being diverted to military production, but the same/higher civilian (demand);

higher cost of base metals/materials;

higher cost of oil (effects manufacturing, shipping, just about everything really);

Wolf, S+B, (and other foreign mfrs) wising up and pricing their stuff just below commercial ammo.

Take your pick....
 
Supply and demand.

-Higher materials costs.
-Higher transport costs.
-High demand for materials and components is lowering what is available for civilian use.
-Lack of cheap surplus ammo is driving up prices on commercial ammo.
 
What they said. Copper, lead, petrochemicals, zinc, steel are all going up drastically.

Part of that is China, a country whose land mass and population dwarf the rest of the world becoming a first world country, maybe even *the* first world country. Just wait until the Three Gorges Dam comes online and they have a surfeit of energy to draw on.

This damn started to fill in 2003!

The average annual power generation from the Three Gorges Dam is about 84 billion kilowatt-hours, which can substitute about 0.5 billion tons of coal.

It should be completed by 2009.
 
Yes it seems to be all about the commodity price market on metals primarily with some influence from the production capactiy used up by the Iraq war.

The Three Gorges Dam is a massive project. It is estimated to contribute 3% of China's growing electrical needs when it is fully on line. Wakipedia quote below summaries info on the dam assuming it's accurate. Link for general info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam

According to The National Development and Reform Commission of China, the average consumption of coal to produce one kWh of electricity in China is 366 grams (2006).[4]Therefore the Three Gorges Dam will potentially reduce the coal consumption by 31 million tons per year,
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The reference above mentions 500 million tons of coal. This exaggerates the impact a bit as it would take about 16 years of coal use to get you to that number. 31 million tons is a lot of coal though per year.
 
Don't forget the demands of the war in Iraq. the US government is burning through stockpiles of ammunition and contracting with suppliers who normally would provide the retail market to replace this ammo, this creates a supply shortage as capacity is taken up by government contracts.
Click to expand...

So we're happy to report that when the war in Iraq ends, ammo prices will go back *down*, right? :)
 
It will help. A lot of the surplus that existed is gone now..if the war ends, there will likely again be surplus..and not so much demand on materials, which will lower the price.
 
I don't think the end of the war will have much effect on ammo prices, because ammo is such a commodity item, and the prices of the base materials have gone up so drastically. I believe that the major components of ammo cost are raw materials and marketing.
 
At the gun show yesterday I realized I won't be buying any more factory ammo. It's just too high.

I feel for shooters that have to pay those prices.
 
At the gun show yesterday I realized I won't be buying any more factory ammo. It's just too high.

I feel for shooters that have to pay those prices.
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That is exactly the reason I started to reload for 9mm, the round I said "I am never going to reload for".

Never say never.
 
Not to derail, but the authorities that make these decisions presented China as "a nation of consumers" and instead we've made them into competitors to scant resources. It impacts everything from the price of gas to the price of oil. (Meanwhile, we can't even import the one thing that would be reasonably priced--firearms. Well, the good ones.)
 
How many threads do we need on this?

As stated in numerous other threads asking this exact same question, there are a lot of factors that are contributing to this to some degree or another. Metal prices, military contracts, consumer demand, China buying up everything, weakening of the dollar, oil prices, and so forth. The truth is that as long as the demand stays high, the prices aren't going doing to drop significantly anytime soon. I'm fairly certain they will drop eventually, but it isn't going to be this week.
 
I was really hoping to not have to get into casting, but it looks as though it's not that far away.
 
The US dollar has lost quite a bit of it's value over the last couple of years compared to most other currencies. So, any imports of commodities into the US will be more expensive.
 
On April 25, 2007 (when I began following the trend) the price of lead per ton was $1,972/ton. By this past week it'd risen to $3,036/ton. :eek: You do the math. It doesn't take much lead to make a ton, as you know. This isn't helping the price of ammo or bullet stock for us reloading types. Manufacturers can't make bullets fast enough to fill orders, either.

Jorg also makes valid points with the multiple demands on the commodity.
 
I haven't been into guns long enough to know, but have the ammo rates climbed continually, or do they both rise and fall?

I'm assuming (hoping) it's like buying RAM for a computer. I know it isn't the same in that RAM requires much more high tech equipment, but RAM prices fluctuate constantly. Sometimes it gets dirt cheap, and other times it's insanely expensive.
 
Lets not forget laws on the types of metals allowed for ammunition. It would be pretty cheap to make bullets out of the cheapest metals, coat them in some sort of polymer thick enough that the rifling never touches the round, and mass produce them for a fraction of the cost. However such rounds would be "AP" rounds, illegal for pistols, the main platform that has the combination of factors that would enable it to work: Low speed (compared to rifles), mediocre accuracy requirements (compared to MOA accuracy from hundreds of yards for rifles.)

So it is in part due to laws that limit the materials ammunition will be created from. This makes ammunition more susceptible to price increases as the market is unable to adjust its base materials to compensate and still provide cheap recreational ammunition.

The raw materials also do not cost THAT much. The copper currently is between $3.50 and $3.60 a pound. Lead is between $1.30-$1.40 a pound. Now lead will add up quicker in weight than copper, but how many rounds does it take to make a pound? Well that is easy to figure out because bullets are measured in grains. So lets take the common 9mm for example. They are made between 100 and 147 grains on average, so lets take 125 as a good midway point. 437.5 grains in an ounce, with 16 ounces (7,000 grains) means it takes 56 solid lead bullets to equal a pound of lead. Now part of the federal AP pistol ammo law states that the jacket cannot be more than 25% of the weight of the projectile. The jacket is the more expensive metals. So lets assume they are using the entire 25% of the weight simply for arguments sake.

Gilded metal as used for jackets is 95% copper and 5% zinc so would cost ($3.60x 95%) $3.42+ ($1.65x5%) 8.25 cents for a grand total of $3.50(.25) per pound. So the jackets costs about $3.50 per pound.

Most bullets use less than 25% of thier total weight as a jacket, but since that would cost the most lets pretend they use the whole legaly allowed 25%.
Bullets would cost (3.50x25%) 87.5, or rounded once again upwards to 88 cents per pound in jackets and ($1.40x75%) $1.05 in lead. A grand total of
$1.93 per pound if made in this most expensive way (with maximum amount of jacket allowed by law) $1.93!! for a pound! Which is 7000 grains or 56 bullets weighing 125 grains.

Cartridge brass is 70% copper and 30% zinc. Zinc has been at between $1.58-$1.65 (These upper ranges are intentional rounded to a couple cents over highest recent prices for purpose of overestimating price rather than underestimating.) So a pound of cartridge brass would cost $2.52(copper) +49.5 cents = $3.01(.5) However not knowing a large list of pure casing weights to base a midway point on(without primers) I cannot compute that into raw material price per casing for cartridges, but it shouldnt be that much.

Then there is the primers.
The powder.
Then the machines that produce them, that need maintenance every so often and parts replaced routinely from wear and tear.
Marketing costs.
Transport costs (adds up for heavy metals.)
Personel costs for employees.
Then factor in a nice margin of profit, which is why businesses exist to begin with.

Oh lets not forget lawsuit cost.
 
Primers at retail cost are about two cents each. Powder somewhere between 2-6 cents depending of course on the round.
Is brass unacceptable as a bullet?
 
That is a lot of interesting info zoogster.

But your saying I cannot make the bullets out of titanium? Or gold?
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No you can, but the gold would obviously be far more expensive, and the titanium would be so light weight that it would not hold momentum and be unsuitable as a bullet.

Mainly for cost purposes it means you cannot use iron/steel which is a small fraction of the price, put in a cheap jacket.

Do keep in mind this is the federal law, state laws can be even more restrictive.

Is brass unacceptable as a bullet?
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Brass is illegal as a bullet for any cartridge for which a handgun has been made, including oddities like a Contender and Encore.

Here is the relevent part of the federal law:

The definition of AP ammo is at 18 USC sec. 921(a)(17):

"(B) The term 'armor piercing ammunition' means-


(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
 
Just buy a handloading press. Seriously. I go to all of these forums (this one included) and half of the threads on the first page are whining about ammo prices. Well, I don't think about ammo prices. I don't have to because I make my own! It's nice! You should get into it.
 
Just like the oil companies. Because the ammo companies can.

You really think steel cased ammo should cost almost as much as brass cased?

Because they can.

Justin
 
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