"We have little use for handguns.." Lorain Morning Journal

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This is from the Lorain Morning Journal, near Cleveland, OH.

Link to originial OP-ED piece.

Our View: Second Amendment issue likely to become major campaign theme
11/26/2007
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If any issue in the 2008 presidential and congressional races could overshadow the Iraq war, health insurance or the nation's economic future, it is the one just triggered by the United States Supreme Court: handgun ownership.


The justices have agreed to consider an appeals court ruling that struck down the local Washington, D.C., government's total ban on handguns. Cities with tight handgun restrictions will be keeping a close eye on how the Supreme Court rules because that ruling will likely hit close to home.


The Supreme Court is likely to hear the arguments in March and is expected to rule in June, in the midst of election campaigns.

The Second Amendment to the Constitution reads: ''A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.''

Gun rights advocates see the Second Amendment as ensuring the right of individuals to possess handguns at home for safety.

Gun control advocates see the Second Amendment as bestowing the collective right of states to have a militia for security.

Washington, D.C., banned handguns in an attempt to hold down violent crime. Citizens challenging the law contend it prevents them from having a handgun at home for self-defense.

In ruling against the Washington, D.C., handgun ban, Appeals Court Judge Laurence Silberman wrote, ''The Bill of Rights was almost entirely a declaration of individual rights, and the Second Amendment's inclusion there strongly indicates that it, too, was intended to protect personal liberty.''

The ruling was the first time a federal court ruled that the Second Amendment was violated by a gun law, according to an account in the Los Angeles Times. The piece noted that the last time the Supreme Court ruled on a Second Amendment issue, in 1939, it emphasized the collective rights stance; justices upheld the conviction of a man for taking a sawed-off shotgun across state lines, noting that such a weapon was not related to maintaining a state militia.

However the Supreme Court decides the Washington, D.C., case, the matter is sure to be hot-burning fuel for political fires in the presidential campaign. Few issues trigger such emotionally charged arguments on each side, and the gun lobby is fully loaded with money for waging an influence campaign.

We have little use for handguns, which the daily parade of headlines across the nation shows doing far more harm than good, especially in cities like Lorain and Cleveland and Washington, D.C. We hope the high court upholds the D.C. gun ban and reads the Second Amendment as plainly referring to the establishment of state militias.

We also hope the Second Amendment matter won't create such commotion in the 2008 political campaigns that other important issues fall by the wayside.


Then, on another page, they were bassically told to shove their opinion where the sun don't shine!


http://www.morningjournal.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19059548&BRD=1699&PAG=461&dept_id=46368&rfi=6
 
My reply,

Which of the Amendments to the Constitution that use the phrase "the people" are not individual rights?

The 1st, using "the people", protects our individual right to speech, religion, assembly and the press.

The 4th, using "the people", protects our individual right to be free of unreasonable search.

Even the 9th and 10th protect the individual's rights and use "the people".

No where is "the people" used that an individual's right is not being guaranteed. Consider the numerous drafts of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, it is unreasonable to argue that the people who crafted these documents would bungle the use of the phrase "the people" to mean one thing in all instances save the 2nd Amendment.
 
We have little use for handguns, which the daily parade of headlines across the nation shows doing far more harm than good

Correction: We have little use for thugs and criminals, which the daily parade of headlines across the nation shows doing far more harm than good, etc.

I can find at least a couple of uses for my handguns that have nothing to do with making headlines. Lorain, right next to Moan and Complain, Ohio.

jm
 
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How bitterly ironic that this comes from the Lorain Morning Journal. I once knew someone who lived not far from there who would have been so much better off had she had the benefit of a defensive sidearm and the knowledge and willingness to use it. To think these, these creatures would advocate the so-called "right" of the state to render her and those like her defenseless makes me sick with rage.
 
We have little use for handguns, which the daily parade of headlines across the nation shows doing far more harm than good, especially in cities like Lorain and Cleveland and Washington, D.C. We hope the high court upholds the D.C. gun ban and reads the Second Amendment as plainly referring to the establishment of state militias.

...where handguns do more harm then good? You mean in places like DC where ONLY CRIMINALS CAN HAVE HANDGUNS? For a handgun to be doing good it has to be in the hands of law abiding citizens!....

<grumble grumble lack of logic anywhere grumble grumble>
 
Who is the "we" that she is referring to? Well whoever the "we" are, the don't have to have or own handguns...

Our "We" have a lot of uses for handguns....

You know who "we" are..
 
I have little use for socialist poltroons and believe their newspapers should be banned. A plain reading of the First Amendment only gives the right of free press to State governments.

I posted a comment pretty darned close to these sentiments. Doubt they'll approve it.
 
We have little use for handguns, which the daily parade of headlines across the nation shows doing far more harm than good
Flat out LIE.

According to the FBI there are between 800,000 and 900,000 crimes committed with firearms each year.

According to something like 14 different studies starting with Kleck there are between 1,500,000 and 2,500,000 self defensive uses of firearms.

Far more harm than good? Bovine Scat!
 
...especially in cities like Lorain and Cleveland and Washington, D.C. We hope the high court upholds the D.C. gun ban
This is such a dumb statement. They're admitting that the DC bad doesn't work!

It's like saying that having cars with no catalytic converters in CA is so bad right now which is why we need to keep the CARB laws...

completely idiotic...
 
Gun rights advocates see the Second Amendment as ensuring the right of individuals to possess handguns at home for safety.

Gun control advocates see the Second Amendment as bestowing the collective right of states to have a militia for security.
At least they got this distinction correct.

The ruling was the first time a federal court ruled that the Second Amendment was violated by a gun law, according to an account in the Los Angeles Times. The piece noted that the last time the Supreme Court ruled on a Second Amendment issue, in 1939, it emphasized the collective rights stance; justices upheld the conviction of a man for taking a sawed-off shotgun across state lines, noting that such a weapon was not related to maintaining a state militia.
I say, as an editorial board, do you own research. Don't rely on the opinion of some other newspaper. If you don't know what you're talking about, you're likely to shown to be foolish.
 
Henry Bowman wrote:

I say, as an editorial board, do you own research. Don't rely on the opinion of some other newspaper.

LOL!!! But for the record the 9th Circuit, in Hickman v Block, made the same exact error.

The seminal authority in this area continues to be United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174, 59 S.Ct. 816, 83 L.Ed. 1206 (1939), in which the Supreme Court upheld a conviction under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. § 1132 (1934), for transporting a sawed-off shotgun in interstate commerce.

http://www.guncite.com/court/fed/81f3d98.html

A newspaper can be forgiven for such an error, but a US Court of Appeals?:banghead:
 
<<The Second Amendment to the Constitution reads: ''A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.''>>

I know this already.
So the founders were not political correct. People…..Militia. Maybe…they left it that way? For future generations to hash it out…..to see fit.

<<Gun rights advocates see the Second Amendment as ensuring the right of individuals to possess handguns at home for safety.>>

And (adding)…….for hunting (including handguns). Competition...
Things that are done with firearms. Besides other means.


<<Washington, D.C., banned handguns in an attempt to hold down violent crime. Citizens challenging the law contend it prevents them from having a handgun at home for self-defense.>>

They have to write their Governor? Must be good….to be Mayor!

<<The piece noted that the last time the Supreme Court ruled on a Second Amendment issue, in 1939,>>

Wow…..1939 ! To keep in tradition (1939 hearing). The Supreme Court should dress for the occasion.
FEDORA HATS / TRILBY HATS (their coming back)…Pinstripe Robes. Gavels…made in shape of a (hand) gun.
Look at judges (celebrities’) on T.V., today.
They (Supreme Court ones) can be called: Ah!......... “Roberts (Da’. Boss) and the 8 Associates”?

<<However the Supreme Court decides the Washington, D.C., case, the matter is sure to be hot-burning fuel for political fires in the presidential campaign.>>

Those politicians’ (ones’ running) are going to get burnt.

<< and the gun lobby is fully loaded with money for waging an influence campaign.>>

Nothing wrong with that. If Gun control advocates…..don’t have money… That’s their problem. Stop giving it to PETA.

<< We also hope the Second Amendment matter won't create such commotion in the 2008 political campaigns that other important issues fall by the wayside.>>


O.K. We’ll see!.....”Tune, in tomorrow…..same bat-time, same bat-channel”!!!!
 
the gun lobby ...

Man oh man do I ever hate it every time I hear that stupid, uninformed phrase. Is there a second amendment? It must be because of the gun lobby.

So tell me again - which portion of 'the gun lobby' did our founding fathers obey when they drafted the bill or rights?
 
What was that Tom Selleck movies where he goes to Australia to shoot dingos with the rifle? Remember he has the duel at the end with the pistol, "No use for them, but that doesn't mean I don't know how to use them.":D

You know the bad guy is extra eeevil as he is white and has an English accent. What is that movie???
 
You know the bad guy is extra eeevil as he is white and has an English accent.

Tom Selleck against Hans Greuber and his two cronies!

The piece noted that the last time the Supreme Court ruled on a Second Amendment issue, in 1939, it emphasized the collective rights stance; justices upheld the conviction of a man for taking a sawed-off shotgun across state lines, noting that such a weapon was not related to maintaining a state militia.
I thought it emphasized that INDIVIDUALS had no right to it since such weapon was not used in militias (which was a flat out lie).
They keep trying to read it as: A well regulated military, being necessary to the stability of a socialist government, the right of the military to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
 
I thought it emphasized that INDIVIDUALS had no right to it since such weapon was not used in militias (which was a flat out lie).

IIRC the Supreme Court did neither, they bounced it back to the lower court for an evidentiary hearing to determine if the weapon had a use in the 'well regulated militia. When Miller was murdered the hearing was declared a moot point.

Selena
 
Hi Selena

When Miller was murdered the hearing was declared a moot point.

There were 2 defendants, Selena. Miller died, but Layton was still around. He copped a plea and was given probation, so no evidentiary hearing was ever held.

Legal (nit-picking) Eagle...:neener:
 
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