we have seen your hogs lets see your dogs

[unreal45]

St. Gunner we have all seen the pictures of the hogs you have killed. Now lets see some pics of your dogs.
I am mostly interested in your catch dogs you posted somewhere that they are gamebred pitbulls. If you know about the bloodlines of your dogs I would like to hear about them.
I am an owner of a game bred pitbull but unfortunatly there are no wild hogs around here. :banghead:

 

[St. Gunner]

unreal45,

I attached a few of my bulldog Bandit, he is supposed to be half Bully and the other half is American and Blackmouth Cur. He is the tan and white dog. The cathoula is my Sasha dog. In the pic with the big hog hanging are Chico a cur cross on the left who is black. Then Bandit, and then a dog named Dolly who is a Blackmouth cur. In the hog in the water that is a dog I sold attached to the hog, she was named Chula and I don't know alot about her, she was from a kennel out of Houston that owned both Americans, pits, and mastiffs. I think she was a cross of some sort. I have another red brindle pit right now and his name is T-bone, he is about 45lbs soaking wet and came out of a kennel near here where the guy still fights em. He sends alot of dogs to Mexico.

I don't have any pics of him and not really any good ones of Any of my dogs, Bandit, Sasha, and T-bone. I'll try to get some tomarrow at some point. Nothing I have had until now is out of a pure game bloodline, all have been crossed with something else. T-bone is the first and he has been doing really good, he is only 10months old.

 

[boohsdad]

That picture is priceless.

 

[unreal45]

St. Gunner,
I am sure your T-bone dog will be all you could have hoped for.
The courage and determination of a gamebred pit bull sets them apart from all other breeds.
I was glad to here that the breeder of your dog fights his dogs, because that is the only way to preserve the indomitable spirit of the true pit bull.

Here are some pictures of my dog Rocky. He is a 1.5 years old and 58 lbs.
He is a doublebred son of CH. Peteyrock(a three time pit winner) and is of 3/4 Grand Champion Zebo/Vindicator 1/4 CH. Jeep/Redboy bloodlines

 

[DigMe]

I was glad to here that the breeder of your dog fights his dogs,

It kinda made me sad to hear personally. It's hard for me to not think of people that raise animals to spend their lives fighting each other for the entertainment and gambling activities of others as total scum. I don't give a damn about the true "indominable spirit" of the pit bull. That "true spirit" is man's design.

brad cook

 

[unreal45]

Have you ever seen a pit match.
I am not talking about hoodlums that are fighting dogs that they stole from someones backyard.
I am talking about breeders that match or test their dogs, so they know which dogs to breed.(to improve the breed)
These people care for their dogs and spend 3 hours a day conditionong there dogs for months before the match.
The last thing these people would do is kill their dog.
If a dog no longer wants to fight the match is over.
If the owner thinks his dog will be hurt he ends the match.

It's hard for me to not think of people that raise animals to spend their lives fighting each other for the entertainment and gambling activities of others as total scum

No betting is done at the matches I am talking about.
These dogs don't spend thier lives fighting. It is very rare for a dog to be matched more than once. And extremly rare for a dog to be matched more than 3 times.
Have you ever met one of these people that you accuse of being scum.
It sounds like you learned everything you know about this subject from PETA
and the media.
PETA supports euthanizing all pit bulls. Who sounds worse.


It is true that fighting preserves the breeds true form.
Show dogs eventually lose their abilitys.

I would never fight dogs myself but I did educate myself about the subject.

Here is my wife with the dog we both love.

 

[unreal45]

Brad,
I have seen the pictures and videos on the Animal Planet of maimed and dying pit bulls and I agree with you that the people who commit these horrible deeds are "total scum".
But this is the exception and not the rule.
This mimics the situation that gun owners are often put in when the media only reports gun crimes. And it reflects poorly on gun owners.

I would encourage you to learn more on the subject. I recommend the following books if you are interested in learning more:

"This is the American Pit Bull Terrier"
"The Truth About the American Pit Bull Terrier"
"The Book of the American Pit Bull Terrier"

I own these books and much can be learned from them.

 

[DigMe]

Unreal,

I'm talking about people who raise dogs for fighting. Do you really believe that if these dogs getting sent to Mexico are only being fought once or twice and that's it? I grew up with a lot of mexican friends that were into cock-fighting and they didn't view their animals as beloved pets. Also, there was always gambling involved. I suspect that down in Mexico the same thing is happening with the dogs.

PETA is a BS organization. I'm an avid hunter and I'm no tree-huggin' hippy but I just don't see the sunny side of dog fighting. Couldn't the spirit of the pit bull be kept alive by using them as hunting dogs as St. Gunner is doing? Maybe there is some sort of harmless dog fighting like what you're saying but I'm talking about local news reports and whatnot that you see where they bust up gambling based dog fights and find dead and half-dead dogs etc...

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, bud. I'm not trying to do the typical liberal, kneejerk reactionary thing here...it just makes me sad to think of two dogs tearing into each other to the cheers of crowds and I know that there is a lot of dog-fighting that goes on in the US where the people just think of the dogs as machines and not beloved pets.

brad cook

 

[unreal45]

My experience is only with american breeders matching their dogs, with the intent to better the breed.

Do you really believe that if these dogs getting sent to Mexico are only being fought once or twice and that's it?

Alot of breeders match their dogs in mexico to test them. And they probably will only be match once or twice in their whole life.

Couldn't the spirit of the pit bull be kept alive by using them as hunting dogs as St. Gunner is doing?

Unfortunatly most people that claim to be breeding pit bulls for catch work are breeding 100 pound dogs that don't even resemble a game bred pit bull and couldn't hold a guinea pig by the ear.

PETA is a BS organization.

Amen to that.

I'm talking about local news reports and whatnot that you see where they bust up gambling based dog fights and find dead and half-dead dogs etc...

Unfortunatly their are people that fit this discription but they are not typical. The typical gamebred pit bull breeder is a white male in his 50 or 60.
I can see how what I said could have offended you. When I said it was good that the breeder fought his dogs i was not referring to the type of fighting that inner city drug dealers or mexican street punks might participate in.
But as always their are 2 sides to every issue.
I am a dog lover and would never want to see a dog severly injured or killed.(again i don't fight dogs)
I strongly suggest you check out some of the books I mentioned above ,at your local library, if you wish to learn more.
No Hard Feelings

 

[St. Gunner]

Brad,

Part of the problem with guys like me preserving the breed is we don't always have the breed staying pure as our main criteria. My Bandit dog was crossed up with an American to add a bit of size and the blackmouth to add a bit of speed. What I have is the epitome of what a game bred dog will do in a package that fits what I need and want. But he isn't even close to fitting the breed standard. My T-bone dog is here because he wasn't exactly up to the breed standard, his legs are to straight, his legs are to long, his head isn't blocky enough... But the things that made him a possible cull to the breeder made him more desirable to me.

I don't like the idea of fighting dogs, it just isn't something I have ever wanted to be part of. But it is time we preserve some of these breeds at all costs. One of the greatest big game dogs in the world was the Dogo Argentino, the breed has been brought to the states and pretty much ruined. The standard called for a protective dog that would find and catch large hogs and mountain lion. I watched video of the dogs debut in Argentina and what I saw on that video and the dogs we have here are not the same critters anymore. Breeders here bred out the protection angle because they didn't think it was important, never stopping to think that prey drive was what it is all about, it was a total package deal.

Today pits seem to be split into several different catagories...

40-60lb Fighters of the old style to enhance the breed

80lb family dogs who they bred the game out of

80lb pits bred for muscle to do weight pulls

80-100lb pits crossed out to Mastiffs to add size, but they loose gameness

40-60lb pits who are bred for hunting with a bit of leg to get there faster

Add to that ganster punks who take the last 5 and steal them, feed them nitrogen fertilizer and make them attack anything that moves.

Pits are by nature very even keeled compassionate dogs. Just today we got on a nasty mean hog, he banged some dogs up pretty dang bad, when I got there Bandit and T-bone had stopped the other dogs from getting thrashed but where taking a beating. Their Kevlar cut vests keep the teeth away but the impacts are still there. This ol boar was just laying into them swinging his head, lifting them clean off their feet with each pop. The each had an ear and where not letting go. I got him stabbed and them broke off and the first thing they both did was lick me in the face. Sorta a, "Hey boss man thanks for pulling our fat out of the fire". One minute they are fighting for their lives and trying to kill this mean hog and 10 seconds later they are big babies. That is the true pit demeanor, not the crap we get fed on tv.

 

[DigMe]

The each had an ear and where not letting go. I got him stabbed and them broke off and the first thing they both did was lick me in the face. Sorta a, "Hey boss man thanks for pulling our fat out of the fire". One minute they are fighting for their lives and trying to kill this mean hog and 10 seconds later they are big babies. That is the true pit demeanor, not the crap we get fed on tv.

I've always heard and read the same.

brad cook

 

[unreal45]

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, bud. I'm not trying to do the typical liberal, kneejerk reactionary thing here...it just makes me sad to think of two dogs tearing into each other to the cheers of crowds and I know that there is a lot of dog-fighting that goes on in the US where the people just think of the dogs as machines and not beloved pets.

I know your no liberal, I have read many of your posts.
I understand your point of view and I agree with you.
However dog fighting (like many things) is not usualy as it is portrayed by the media.
I am not defending dog fighters, I am just letting you know they are not all "total scum".
I would never participate in dog fighting of any form.

 

[St. Gunner]

The brindle dog is T-bone, the other two are Bandit and Sasha. Sasha is a full blooded catahoula. Then the other pics are the hog from yesterday that banged up some dogs, at least pics of his tusks.

 

[unreal45]

Great pics. You have some good looking dogs.
That hogs got some mean looking cutters!

 

[sturmruger]

St. Gunner from what I have read you use your dogs to both track and occupy the hogs while you are getting ready to shoot. Could you explain to those of us that don't know exactly how the whole hunting with dogs thing works.

Thanks

 

[St. Gunner]

Sturm,

We rarely shoot a hog, it is to dangerous for the dogs. What happens is we turn what we term a strike dog loose into the woods in a good spot. In my case that is my Sasha dog. Her job is then to seek out a hog and begin barking. If it tries to run she is to nip its butt area hard enough to force it to turn and fight her. So her job is to keep it distracted and occupied. She normally has a couple other dogs helping do this, but often she does it alone.

Then I approach as close as possible to the "BAY" and have Bandit and T-bone who are dressed in Kevlar vests "Cut Vests" and 4" collars. I normally walk in within eyesight of the hog, verify it is indeed a hog and not a racoon or some other trash they shouldn't be barking at, then turn Bandit and T-bone loose. They rush in and normally grab the hog by the ears and then hold him in place.

One of us then walks in to the hog, grabs its hind legs, and another runs a knife in under his right front leg severing the heart. If I am alone I simply walk in on the side Bandit is caught on(I trust him more) and administer the knife thrust. The whole time the strike dogs are barking at the hog or sometimes helping to catch it.

Now in the pic with the hog in the water back at the top of this thread. Sasha found that hog one afternoon, i'd left Bandit at home that day because Chula(The pitbull dog) was in heat at the time. So I caught that hog with one strike dog and one catch dog and a 4" gunsite folder from Coldsteel. Course it took about ten minutes before I could walk again my knees started shaking so bad, that sucker had some really nice teeth and was really large. More hog than I really wanted to handle with just myself and two dogs.

On occasion we will shoot a hog, but it is normally when the catch dogs are out of commision either from cuts that came through the vests or they are just physically exhausted. When we shoot one it is normally at spitting distance because most of the time they bay in the thickest cover they can find.

 

[sturmruger]

Thanks for sharing St. Gunner I think I have a better idea of how using dogs works. It sounds like it would be a lot safer for you if you had a spear like H&H that way you wouldn't have to get so close.

 

[St. Gunner]

Safer yes....

But not nearly as much fun...