We need to petition for 3.0% capsaicinoid content for pepper sprays!

[GuyWithQuestions]

We need to petition pepper spray companies to make a pepper spray product with 3.0% capsicum and related capsaicinoids! FoxLabs only has a capsaicinoid content of 0.67%, Sabre Red 1.33%, and grizzly bear pepper spray 2.0%. BodyGuard Hi-Power is 3.0% capsaicinoid content from chemical analyses (base resin of 3 million SHUs, 15% Oleoresin Capsicum). The thing is Defense Technologies (they bought out Guardian Personal Security Products a while ago) has now stopped making the stuff; some law enforcement complaints of it being too powerful. The only Hi-Power that's left over is the stuff sitting around at pepper spray stores, and soon even that will be gone. There is one other company that sells a product with a capsaicinoid content of 3.0%; UDAP has a Pepper Power product that's twice as hot as all their other personal defense products. The disadvantage is it has a safety that you manually slide back and forth (much more time consuming than flip-tops) and its spray only goes 8 feet, not 12 feet like BodyGuard 1.9 oz bottles.

Does anyone have any ideas of pepper spray companies that we may have luck in petitioning to make a pepper spray product with a capsaicinoid content of 3.0%, forced cone, and flip-top? Do you think Security Equipment Corporation could be convinced to make something like "Sabre Red Plus Plus"?

 

[Destroyer911]

I see know reason why UDAP can't put their 3.0 CRC formula into a forced cone fliptop spray. I have got their standard 1.34 CRC formula into my eyes by walking into the airborne mist and it really hurt. I dropped the OC canister and wanted to rub ny eyes, but remembered not too. Im sure thier 3.0 spray would be unbearable.

I think alot of companies are concerened about liability if their spray is so strong that it causes permanent damage. I for one, am not. If some bad guy attacks me, he deserves what he gets.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

We need to all petition UDAP!

I emailed UDAP Industries about extending their 3.0% major capsaicinoid product to a flip-top version, because the safeties that you slide back and forth are more time consuming than flip tops and not necessarily safer. I also said that it would be nice to have a 2 oz version. This is what they said:

We are looking into this. We are not able to do it at this time but may in the future. Our law enforcement products have the flip top heads. They are very effective, but do not have the 3.0% formula. It is 1.34%. The #9HP has a 2% formula. Plus the number 9 is a high volume spray with a spray distanceof 30+ feet. If we start making another 3.0% product it would be around next spring for its release.

So I responded back to their email saying that I put my vote in that they make a 3.0% major capsaicinoids forced cone flip-top product. We should all petition UDAP Industries to make this product; for anyone interested in a potent and effective pepper spray their email address is [email protected] Remember to include the part about "flip-top" along with 3.0% major capsaicinoids.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

Having the option of one of those 2 oz bottles that shoots 12 feet would be nice too, because they only offer one of those 3/4 oz (push forward safeties) that shoots 8 feet. A two ounce bottle is the perfect size for someone who wants something not too big, but that's big enough to have enough pressure for a good range.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

mercop says that pepper spray is useless. That's why we need this better pepper spray, not this week stuff!

 

[mercop]

As a professional trainer my opinion based on experience and research is that the CONS of OC carry far outweigh the PROS. I don't care if it 10%.

 

[alwilliam]

I have been involved with VERY high end "pepper mixes" they burn badly and can kill..its doubtful if you will ever see truly high end pepper mixes sold over the counter.

Back in the 1930s the top dog of "sprays" was DM/vomit gas in .410ga and 20ga tear gas pens...it worked great but could kill so it faded away from use....and was gone from over the counter sales by the 1940s.

Here is a bit of "pepper info".


High end "pepper" can be a very bad deal as far as it causes burns and can damage tissue ! and IMO is dangerous...I have a friend that collects ultra exotic "hot sauce mixtures" and 1 of them he had was in a pure crystal form of capsaicin....I had looked at it many times at his home and thought what can I do with this.... I started to look into mfg a limited sale "last gasp" type capsaicin spray.Capsaicin is freely soluble in ether and chloroform....oh sorry thats another story...

The Pure N-Vanillyl-8-methyl-6-(E)-noneamide Crystal was rated at 16,000,000 Scoville Heat Units.......

I have worked on a my "last gasp" pepper spray idea for a few years,on and off.

I had a few mixes that were tested by a partner and myself...I shut down my own breathing down so far and had such a bad panic effect,I had to have my emt pal who was on standby just in case....help me to recover...IT WAS VERY DANGEROUS & SCARY !!!!!

IMO-KILLER pepper gas would be to dangerous for general sale...for a few reasons.

1 is blow back and it always happens in some form no matter what.

The other is unless person is very healthy it can shut OFF breathing.

3rd burns to the mucosa and other problems.




Here is the rateing of heat units for the Capsaicinoid family
8,600,000 Scoville Units is Homocapsaicin.

8,600,000 Scoville Units is Homodihydrocapsaicin.

9,100,000 Scoville Units is Nordihydrocapsaicin.

16,000,000 Scoville Units is Dihydrocapsaicin.

16,000,000 Scoville Units is Pure Capsaicin


What does this all mean...well Sabre Red is one of the hottest sprays at 10% and a true SHU of about 250,000 ...now re-think the 8-16,000,000 SHU....You would not get this high a shu out of the nozzle but it would make all current OC sprays look like mild sauce at taco bell.

A general way to check OC is If the product claims 15% OC at 2,000,000 SHU, you multiply the claimed SHU by the claimed percentage of OC. i.e.: 2,000,000 SHU X 15% (or .15) = 300,000 "true" SHU. Lots of BS numbers out their.


BE VERY,VERY CAREFUL , ITS NOT GOING TO BE FOX LABS or SABRE RED....IF you GET IT RIGHT.

Very simple home brew starting point...

Puree 50 Habanero's in pure/200 proof Ethanol ...190 proof everclear will work. Let the mixture sit overnight at room temperature. Filter the sludge through coffe filters and place the liquid in a glass container. Begin to heat the liquid very slowly using either an electric heating device (naked flames would be dangerous), or use a vapour trap to remove the alcohol fumes safely. Continue until 90% of the liquid has evaporated. Remove from the heat and let cool.

Look for a brick-red oil floating on the surface of the ethanol. If none is present, continue to evaporate the ethanol away periodically cooling the mixture to look for the red oil on the surface.

Once the red oil appears, pour the red oil and the remaining ethanol into a long thin glass cylinder, use an eye dropper to suck off the oil and place it in a clean container.

The oil is SEMI pure Capsaicin, in the range of 40% Capsaicin / 60% Capsaicinoids.

Fill pressure delivery device of your choice with solvent and oil.

Please ...UNDERSTAND that Capsaicin is an extreme irritant and CAN BE hazardous to your health as both a chemical burn agent and as a poison when in its purer concentrated forms. Only a fool or a person with some general training as a chemist would want to undertake the above procedure....USE CAUTION !

 

[brent376]

Kimber Lifeact Products are 2.4% CRC. This product caused a small red burn on my skin for about 24 hours. I would say that this is hot enough.

 

[velojym]

Hmmm... how about soaked into a wrap of masking tape on a blowgun or air pistol dart? (like as with the 'shootin darts' package we used to have)
Just outta curiosity...

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Are you an O. Chemist, Al?

Thanks for the info, man; I'm gonna have to order a frac column and try that out.

 

[alwilliam]

Kimbers blend is very pure and it is HOT ! I agree.

I would not mess with high end home brew blends unless you have a VERY clear understanding of what the dangers and safety measures are. I am not a chemist just a person who likes experimental devices and brews...

A fractionating column is highly recommended.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

brent376,

You said that Kimber Lifeact Products is pretty good? Where can I buy it? Right now I still have BodyGuard Hi-Power (3% capsaicinoid content). I bought as many as copsplus had left so my supply will last until 2012, but after that, I'll need something stronger than Sabre Red.


alwilliam,

You said that high end pepper mixed can burn badly and kill. I have Hi-Power, which is 3% capsaicinoid content. 3 million SHUs X 15% = 450,000 true SHUs for nozzle strength. Is that strong enough to be likely to cause permanent damage, or would you say I'd be pretty safe with that stuff? I want to limit my chances of being held liable if I'm not justified in causing permanent damage, but at the same time want something that's quite strong. I saw a study that found that a certain 1% capsaicinoid content spray didn't cause any "permanent damage", just lacerations in the eye that lasted for a week. When I had my roommates spray me directly in the face with FoxLabs to see what it's like, my eyes were swollen for the next couple of days, but was nothing permanent, but then that's only about 0.67% capsaicinoid content.

 

[alwilliam]

Apply a bit of the 3% to some mucosa and see what it does...I say it will casue a burn.

 

[CrawdaddyJim]

Oleo resin can be purchased by the gallon jug. I used to buy mine for the restaurant from Sysco products. This is pure capsaicinoid oil. You dip a toothpick into it at 1mm it will burn your mouth badly. Couldn't get anyone to try 2mm. It was about 30.00 for the gallon.

Had a dishwasher clear the restaurant when he dumped it into the mop bucket thinking it was floor cleaner. NO he didn't get to complete his shift.

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

I have tried licking the nozzle of the BodyGuard Hi-Power 3% capsaicinoid content spray. It tastes so much hotter than the FoxLabs. The thing is, that doesn't tell me if it would be strong enough to cause permanent damage. I had my roommates spray me directly in the face with FoxLabs so I'd see what it's like and it doesn't even compare with licking the nozzle or spraying it inside while breathing or having the wind blow it back in your face; getting sprayed directly in the face is a hundred times worse than any of that. I know Hi-Power is hot, but I don't know what it would do in real life if I was to spray someone directly in the face in self-defense.

 

[CrawdaddyJim]

Put 911 into your phone and then spray yourself in the face. If it feels like you are going blind then hit the send button.


Then again maybe not.

 

[alwilliam]

Toxicity of Capsaicinoids

In order to determine the lethal toxic level of capsaicinoids in animals, and to extrapolate that level for humans, researchers in 1980 performed a rather gruesome experiment with mice, rats, guinea pigs and rabbits. Pure capsaicin was administered intraveinously, subcutaneously, in the stomach, and applied topically until the animals died. The lethal toxic doses of capsaicin, measured in milligrams per kilogram of animal weight ranged from a mere .56 milligrams when administered intraveinously to 190 milligrams when consumed to 512 milligrams when applied topically--which means that the poor animals were drowned in it. Indeed, the probable cause of death in all cases was presumed to be respiratory paralysis.

Humans have also acted as guinea pigs with oleoresin capsicum. It is an ingredient in super-hot sauces with words in the name like insanity, death, and suicide...most people react very negatively to the super-hot sauces, experiencing severe burning and sometimes blistering of the mouth and tongue. Other immediate responses have included shortness of breath, fainting, nausea, and spontaneous vomiting. People should be careful of commercial hot sauces that list oleoresin capsicum as an ingredient.