Weapons Engineering jobs?

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I have a lot more to say on the subject of degree majors and applicability to the world of engineering. However, I don't want to get into arguments as I hope the best for you. The gun owners and shooters of the world need new designers, and I hope you get your chance.

I was at the NRA Museum in Virginia a few months ago and saw the Savage 99 that Bill Ruger converted into a semi-auto as a demonstration of his ability; he took that to various gun companies before he got an offer to work for Remington (I think it was Remington). He started his own company with Mr. Sturm at a later time. There is a key lesson to be learned here.
 
What are you looking for??

This is the real question. If you want a career then if my opinion gunsmithing is not for you. If going back to school for a Masters Degree is what is necessary for a career go for it. The first step is to research what fields or career areas are out there. Determine what is required to enter that field and go for it.
 
IlikeSA said:
Im not in the machine tech trade at all, but my Dad is. He never got an engineering degree, or a degree at all. He works for a big name company that manufactures all types of precision machine made parts, focusing particularly on jet engine parts. He works with engineers all day long designing and making the parts. The difference, he told me, is that with the experience of making the parts, he can do what the engineers can't do, because all they learned is the theory. They need him to make the parts and make it work.
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I think an education in both the theory and mechanics would be beneficial if one wants to be a firearms designer. Perhaps the gunsmithing school would be beneficial in addition to the physics degree. Also study in great depth the work of firearms designers of the past, e.g., Browning, Saive, Garand.
 
Two points...

First, I'd try the military research & development facilities. Notably Aberdeen Proving Grounds and the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Crane, IN.

Second, lose the attitude. You're going to be working with people who have been doing this since you were in diapers - literally.
 
I recall the story of the recruiter from, I think GE, who set up at a university shortly before graduation. All the other companies had signs up for the majors they were interested in but the GE guy said: "I'll talk to anybody. You have proven you can spend 4 years studying stuff you don't see an immediate need for. We will teach you your job." Not much of that going on these days, but you can make it fly if you can get their attention.
 
i simply wouldnt want to use a weapon that was designed by someone who couldnt properly calculate the yield strength of the breech or how do design with a proper factor of safety....or how the wear on the gun is going to effect the future operations of the weapon...
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I think I've gotten a few of those already, how about you?
 
With a degree in physics you might consider Lawrence Livermore or one of the other nuclear weapons companies - better pay and benefits anyway..

good luck
 
Physics is a much more in depth study than engineering that teaches problem solving skills. Engineering is a Physics "light" degree. I know this because I've had most of the engineering courses at my school, and most of the upper level engineering courses are baby courses of the physics ones. Like thermal, theres an engineering one, and one for us physics majors... why we break it up I don't know they're identical. if I wanted to could get an engineering minor here but I don't know If I could fit the extra class or two into my schedule next semester.
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Your school may have been different than ours, but I wouldn't call any of the engineering courses at my school (Iowa State) a watered down version of a physics course. We also didn't have an engineering minor. The people in the adminstration knew enough to know that engineering is too big of a field to have a minor in it be worthwhile. Engineers may not have the breadth of physicists but they make up for it in depth and that depth cannot be provided by a couple of courses.

You also state that everyone thinks they know what a physics degree is, you apparently don't know what an engineering degree is. Good engineering programs focus on the practical application of the laws of physics, problem solving skills, and attention to detail. From the outside looking in, you might not see these things from your position, but they're there and very important and also make people with engineering degrees more employable straight out of school. That's not to say that someone with a degree in physics couldn't eventually do all of the same things as someone with an engineering degree.

Also, depending on the laws in your state, you may not ever be able to get a professional engineering license. In some fields and positions, that's very important. I also suggest that you stop looking down you nose at engineers if you want to work with them.
 
Consider enlisting in the armed forces as a small arms repair technician as a next step to getting experience and background.

This may be a way to get into gunsmithing but there are better ways to use your education in the military. Try enlisting as an ordnance officer which encompasses a lot of other things besides weapons. If you can get a job doing R&D in weapons this gives you a much more extensive background for a civilian job.
 
You also state that everyone thinks they know what a physics degree is, you apparently don't know what an engineering degree is. Good engineering programs focus on the practical application of the laws of physics, problem solving skills, and attention to detail. From the outside looking in, you might not see these things from your position, but they're there and very important and also make people with engineering degrees more employable straight out of school. That's not to say that someone with a degree in physics couldn't eventually do all of the same things as someone with an engineering degree.
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See that's the thing though. I was at one point a dual major. engineering/physics, but the engineering courses just seemed like a repeate of the physics ones. I have sevearl of the other upper level books that I go over, and constantly tinker with stuff. Now a straight physics major might not be able to do the some of the things as quickly as a pure engineer (I can think of several here who do think they are gods and would do horribly simply because they think in straight math terms. But there are others who would excell) but I'm different. I've done both, its just that now I'm a straight physics major.

I also suggest that you stop looking down you nose at engineers if you want to work with them.
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I don't look down on engineers they're great for innovating conventional designs, granted most of the ones I've taught Phys I to here can hardly take the sin of an angle. That Might be why i'm weary of straight engineers.

I have a lot more to say on the subject of degree majors and applicability to the world of engineering. However, I don't want to get into arguments as I hope the best for you. The gun owners and shooters of the world need new designers, and I hope you get your chance.
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Theres only so much that can be gleamed from new designs with conventional firearms with the current restrictions, THV for example was largely rejected despite reducing overpenetration, increased Soft body armor penetration, and an extreme damage potential. I think the reason for this was largely due in part because of legal restrictions. Other than that we are at the limit of efficiancy for chemical projectile based weaponry. The next step is to go either Laser (horrible for man portable weapons systems) or Rail Weapons, which offer a great potential, but are currently limited by battery technology.
 
the gun companies are hiring mostly mechanical engineers.


physics degree will get you the same job as an engineering degree. where? i check all the big gun companies websites almost daily for jobs, and have never seen physics mentioned anywhere.

Neither will get you far as a designer unless you have the talent to design stuff. i'm an industrial designer and have been unable to secure a position with any gun companies. they are all looking for mechanical engineers, and electrical engineers to a lesser degree.
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.....
 
The End

I think enough has been said and advice given. A word in closing to all of us know it alls Never judge anothers motives or attitudes. This poster started out seeking information and was deluged with both pros and cons of different approaches to his question. He has enough info now to make an intelligent decision as to his future. I wish him the best.
 
You might be over reaching. Realize that most engineering work for recent graduates with a bachelors degree are technical jobs. The research and development spots are normally reserved for those with graduate degrees and work experience. I'm not saying it's impossible to find research & design work with a bachelors degree, I'm saying it's just difficult to find.

There's also another catch. A degree only gets you the interview. Your aptitude gets you the job. So even if you have the aptitude to do the work, a mismatched degree prevents you from getting the right interviews. You may want to consider going back to school for a graduate degree. It will get you more interviews with design work involved.
 
Theres only so much that can be gleamed from new designs with conventional firearms with the current restrictions, THV for example was largely rejected despite reducing overpenetration, increased Soft body armor penetration, and an extreme damage potential. I think the reason for this was largely due in part because of legal restrictions. Other than that we are at the limit of efficiancy for chemical projectile based weaponry. The next step is to go either Laser (horrible for man portable weapons systems) or Rail Weapons, which offer a great potential, but are currently limited by battery technology.
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your assessment on chemical based weapons is SOOO far off its not even funny...

..im sure 1000 years ago people thought there was no where else to go with gunpowder weapons......look at us now......

there is a huge new area of polymers in firearms that recently opened up within the past 30 years......there is PLENTY of room to expand

new areas of chemical based propellants

advancing fluid dynamics of projectiles


Laser weapons are at least another 40 years from being practice ...let alone readily implementable....and honestly their functions are limited.....

....for man portable laser weapons.......forget about it.....


as for rail based weapons.....that shows promise.....still FAR less efficient than chemical weapons and a good 50 years from being readily available....

as for man portable rail weapons......again, forget about it......not in this life time...


but i can grantee that in 100, 200, 300 years from now we are still going to be using and advancing on gunpowder technology.
 
I remember when I got my EE degree and thought I was hot stuff also. I thought I knew so much. I didn't know squat.

All college does is prove that you can learn that "type" of information(in your case technical based). You learn a little bit about a lot of things in school. In the real world you have to demonstrate that you can apply that knowledge base, and you have to deepen the base tremendously.

"Physics is a much more in depth study than engineering that teaches problem solving skills. Engineering is a Physics "light" degree."

TS seems to be looking down his nose at Engineers. The PROBLEM SOLVING SKILLS of Engineers is what allows him to type on your computer in his air-conditioned dorm room. This attitude will not get him very far, nor will it gain him any friends out in the real world. He may be hot stuff at Georgia Southern(where?), but that doesn't mean anything once he leaves now does it. He seems to think that Engineering courses are Physics-lite based on reading a course syllabus or something. Humility is the next best thing for him to begin studying.

He might want to work on interview skills as well. Learning what NOT to say might help open some doors for him. Telling the Engineer interviewing him that his degree is Physics-lite and doesn't teach problem solving skills will get him tossed.
 
Another option is to do it yourself and start a business focusing on one small aspect of weapons design. If you can substantially improve some aspect of a critical weapons component you can make a great living licensing and customizing the technology.

A guy I met at Oak Ridge National Lab did something similar with flame retardants for airplanes. Some component he developed (I think it was magnesium oxide nanoparticles, invented before the term nanoparticle was even conceived) made firefighting devices on airplanes lighter/better than the competition and he made a great living for 30 years licensing and consulting.

Something similar could be done with firearms. An EE friend of mine and I have talked about it in detail, and even thought about trying to write a grant to address it. What we had in mind was using a microwave plasma to deposit a coating that could greatly enhance barrel life by essentially lining the barrel with a very thin film of synthetic diamond. The coating might also be effective on firing pins. If I ever find myself with access to a plasma reactor that meets the required specs with a more liberal policy on unauthorized experiments I may have to revisit the idea.

No arms company is going to give you the keys to the car, so to speak, with a BS in physics and no experience. If you think you have the ingenuity and ideas to add value to a product, you really have to do it yourself.
 
Also study in great depth the work of firearms designers of the past, e.g., Browning, Saive, Garand.
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Does anyone know what educational background those guys had?
 
When it comes to being a successful designer, you either are gifted or you're not. If you are one of those lucky people, you will find success, if not, you will rely mostly on your credentials to make a living. Constantly work to improve your credentials and make lots of designs. And don't let people who don't even know what a physics degree is bother you or stress you out, just keep looking forward and practice your art. You're educational background should help steer you away from design elements that aren't practical, but don't be afraid to push the envelope when you think you've got it right. Good luck! Also, no need to start out in the firearms industry if you can't right away, look at motor companies, aerospace, etc...
 
Working in an engineering capacity in firearms design is a very niche engineering specialty when compared to hundreds of thousands of mechanical, structural, aerospace engineering positions out there.

With that being said you can take the route of contacting all the major firearm manufacturers to see if they're hiring, but given your lack of experience I highly doubt they'd hire you right out of school.

My alternative suggestion is to work for a big defense contractor such as ATK, Raytheon, General Dynamics, or BAE, who hire thousands of entry level engineers a year, yet also have divisions dedicated to making large caliber firearms, munitions, cannons, etc. Make a name for yourself and I assure you'd be able to easily transition to these areas and work on new designs for weapons that go bang. After a few years of experience in that environment transitioning to a small firearms company wouldn't be difficult.
 
Here's the word on becoming a self-employed gunsmith from someone who should know:
http://grantcunningham.com/blog_files/becoming_a_gunsmith.html

However, it sounds like the poster want to work for a big defense contractor, or perhaps a small arms manufacturer. Well, you know who they are (Hughes, Boeing, Colt, Ruger, Remington,....). There's nothing quite like marching up to the front door and asking if they will let you in. I think I even heard that Savage was hiring.
 
Oh, and you need to tone down your know it all attitude. Most of the old-line american gun companies, you're gonna end up working for crusty old tool-makers as an entry level engineer. They won't take kindly to your insinuation that one degree is better than another considering most of them have no degree, and a buch never even graduated high-school.

Small Arms is extremely niche, and the vast majority of engineers aren't designers, they're in manufacturing/QC/supply chain management.

I'm not sure how it is that your degree is more in-depth than the four semesters of material science I took. Strength of Materials has nothing, NOTHING to do with Quantum Mechanics. 2D CAD is so 25 years ago....
 
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