Weapons used at the Little Big Horn

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I agree there, the muzzleloading 'Trade' rifle was used by the vast majority of Indians at the battle. Even during the Civil War Custer was in the habit of digging himself a hole but the big difference was his men had the Spencer repeater to dig him out of it.
 
It was interesting that more than a few revolvers were in the hands of the Native Americans. I had also read somewhere that spent Winchester rimfire cases had been found that had shown evidence of being reloaded: firing pin indentations carefully pounded out before being recharged with black powder and bullets, etc. It is a wonder that those diy reloads worked.
 
It was interesting that more than a few revolvers were in the hands of the Native Americans. I had also read somewhere that spent Winchester rimfire cases had been found that had shown evidence of being reloaded: firing pin indentations carefully pounded out before being recharged with black powder and bullets, etc. It is a wonder that those diy reloads worked.
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Probably didn't half or most of the time. I haven't found a real good study on the availability of RELIABLE ammunition in the vast reaches of the west during the period of settlement, but I'm guessing here as I don't have a source but I figure a whole lot of people held on to their muzzleloading rifles, shotguns AND pistols a whole lot longer than people realize.
 
Good article. Thanks.

BTW, I have First Sergeant Ryan's book. It was hard for me to get.
 
Winchester, Remington, UMC, Sharps, and others had dealers all over the place, and they stocked ammunition for the guns they sold. After the railroads pushed thru in the mid 1860's, there really wasn't any shortage of metalic ammunition anywhere in the west.
 
Having lived not too far from the battlefield, and the Northern Cheyene reservation, I heard many times that after the battle, all the guns were rounded up and hidden in a small sandstone cave, where they remain to this day. Interesting.
 
If that happened with those guns, it must of been about a year later when those folks quit trying to out run the Army and started turning themselves in at the reservation.
 
Crawdad,
People held on to muzzle loaders longer than most folks think?

A lot longer than most people think.....I ran into two brothers hunting meat for their family with great great granddaddy's 1851 Enfield in 1964......

Everyone else:

It seems every month or so I come across a different expert's writings that disproves everyone else's writings before that one.

Personally I think there were a whole bunch of Amer-Indians armed with everything from wooden clubs to the then latest and greatest and a fewer number of half trained Irishmen some of whom really did not speak English for spit commanded by a guy that had issues.

I have read that there is NO eveidence that 1873 Carbines failed to extract and that cases with the rims ripped and pocket knife tips were found in numbers on the site. I have read that the Indians used few Bows and Arrows and that those tey did were used at close range and I have read they used a lot of Bows and Arros and shot at some range from defilade.

About the only thing I have not read a contradiction to is that the men that followed Yellow Hair into the Greasy Grass that day actually lost.....although some point out that this battle resulted in the eventual defeat of the Amer-Indians involved......not that it makes a bit of difference to those that died with Custer that day.....

As to the sand stone cave story....we all know about stories like that.....and yet.

In 1975 a German buddy talked about how a friend of his growing up had a mother that spoke of an SS Battalion carefully stacking arms in a trench across the street from her house, covering them with wood and canvass and then burying them. Every one rolled their eyes and laughed behind their hands when she told them this or her son told anyone.

In early 1975 right after the snow melt a project to widen and pave the road uncovered guess what? Neatly stacked and for the most part still functional StG-44 rifles, G 43 rifles, MG-42s and PanzerFaust (think throw away RPG-2s) and Mortars. Appearently when this initially happened a few of the StG -44 immediately disappeared along with a pile of ammo and Mags. A polizi friend showed me a gun later he claimed was from that stash and said his unit had three others they had recovered from folks that should not have had them.

Some times tall tales are not really that tall.......

-kBob
 
One of the forensic reports from the Little Bighorn indicates in that authors belief, some of the trapdoors did fail to eject, but the knife marks on the case came from the Indians retrieving those carbines and putting them back into service.
It's well documented at Weir point one of the officers there had an infantry rifle and as troopers carbines jammed up they would pass it down the line so he could drive the stuck case out with the ramrod.
It's not hard to figure out how those carbines could of become jammed, when you consider the ammunition was probably filthy with dirt and dust, the ambient temps were pretty high, and the government powder wasn't known for it's clean burning. Fouling build up would of been an issue in very short order.
 
I have a Uberti trapdoor carbine. It came with sights that were non adjustable for windage. Were the originals like that as well ?
I have also read that the average trooper was not well schooled or practiced in marksmanship.
 
Shanghai McCoy said:
I have a Uberti trapdoor carbine. It came with sights that were non adjustable for windage. Were the originals like that as well ?
I have also read that the average trooper was not well schooled or practiced in marksmanship.
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Unfortunatly, in the post Civil War Army, although a number of new cavalry units were commissioned due to the heating-up of the Plains-Indian Wars (the 7th Cavalry was one) very little $$$ would be spent on equipment & supplies. Ammunition for the Trapdoor Springfield was a cheaply made copper bodied round, not brass like good ammo used, and soldiers were allocated very little ammunition for target practice.
 
Those early cartridges were internally primed, still centerfire but the priming compound was inside the case, so the case head was necessaryily soft.
The troops were supposed to be allotted 20 rounds per month for target practice, but often times the quartermaster wouldn't allow that ammunition ration as he was concerned it might short the supply, and leave them short for maneuvers.
Not many accounts of the troopers complaining about not being able to shoot their monthly allotment.
 
Idaho Shooter - Unless they were about to surrender themselves and go on the reservation, I doubt if the Indians would have hidden any firearms away. Got it? Use it! Gonna lose it? Hide it.
 
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