Weatherby Vanguard Non-Sub MOA

[LJH]

Ok I know at the Howa plant they test the rifles and it shoots a 3-shot sub moa, they put on a different floor plate and charge more. Does anyone know if they pull every one or just when they need them? I am asking because I opened the box, mounted the scope, and three shots later I was staring at a .75” group. This was just one of many nice surprises for the day. Even stranger I had a first shot that was dead on, with zero adjustment. It is my luck day.

 

[Shawnee]

Congrats ! And nice shooting !

We all have Bad Luck once in a while so I say Enjoy the Good Luck to the hilt !

 

[pbrktrt]

i think that's pretty common with the Howa/Vanguard platform. they are a well made rifle. the barrel & action are top notch. the triggers & stocks, well might leave something to be desired. timney & hogue can fix that. hard to beat for the money.

 

[browningguy]

That grouping is only with the ammo they test with. I had a non-MOA in '06 with about a 1.25" group (shot with 180 gr. loads). I tried some 150 and 165 loads and settled on the Federal 165's which would shoot around .75" all day.

 

[skinewmexico]

It's not like a 3 shot sub-MOA group is that tough of a challenge, especially from a fixed rest. Most decent rifles will do it.

 

[LJH]

Yea, I normally cant.

 

[LeonCarr]

I honestly have never seen a Weatherby Vanguard/Howa 1500 that wouldn't shoot under MOA, regardless of what the floorplate says. I say get a Non-Sub MOA, and experiment with different factory loads or work up a handload that it likes, and I will almost guarantee it will shoot under MOA.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Yeah, like they said, I think that's pretty common, for the non-sub-MOAs to shoot sub-MOA. I don't know EXACTLY when they decide to slap the Sub-MOA on it - is it at .9MOA? .8? .75? .5? What? I'd venture a guess that they're not gonna risk that guarantee unless their test group is sub-.75 MOA, but who knows... I paid the extra for the Sub-MOA like an idgit, but somebody's gotta keep the gun stores in business, I guess.

It's not like a 3 shot sub-MOA group is that tough of a challenge, especially from a fixed rest. Most decent rifles will do it.

Meeeeh.....yes and no, in my experience. It's not ALL that easy to do, actually, at least for me, without the lead sled. You've got to have a good rifle, good tight scope mount & rings, and a good shooting rest and hold. It's actually not all that hard to shoot 1MOA at 50 yards, but a bit harder to shoot 1MOA at 100 yards, due to wind. Shooting 2MOA is not all that difficult with most rifles at 100 yards from a sandbag rest, but 1MOA at 100 (for ME), is not accomplished without a quality rifle/load marriage, and the lead sled, but I guess my skill is below the average internet skill set. Something about typing on the keyboard seems to incredibly hone a lot of guys' hand-eye coordination and steadiness. Guess it doesn't work for me, for some reason.

 

[skinewmexico]

You've got to have a good rifle, good tight scope mount & rings, and a good shooting rest and hold.

So there are people that shoot without doing these fundamentals? That's like playing baseball without a bat.

 

[Reid73]

they put on a different floor plate and charge more

I don't own any Vanguard rifles, but from the Weatherby catalogue I believe there is a bit more to the Sub-MOA and normal Vanguards than the above suggests.

Specifically, the standard Vanguard is apparently furnished with an injection-molded stock, while the Sub-MOA version has a stiffer, pillar-bedded, composite (Fiberguard™) stock.

I may well be wrong, so feel free to correct me.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

So there are people that shoot without doing these fundamentals?

Yes! There are. Judging by what I see at the gun shows and dealing with gun owners, there are an enormous amount of people with cheap aluminum rings, cheap scopes, untightened rings, etc., on the rifles that are bought and sold. The un-aware don't think to look at the ring screws or the fact that the $20 BSA scope won't hold up to their .300 mag recoil, when their groups suck. As I say, I don't think people shooting 1 MOA is nearly as common as the stories go on the intarwebz. But who knows for sure...

Reid 73, you are right, they do offer the better stock & bedding with the SUB-moa, after they slap the floorplate on, so you're getting *something* tangible for the money.

 

[Water-Man]

There may be a number of rifles that will shoot sub MOA, but there aren't many people that can. Doing it at 50 yds. does not count!

 

[atblis]

I'll bump this for a question

Specifically, the standard Vanguard is apparently furnished with an injection-molded stock, while the Sub-MOA version has a stiffer, pillar-bedded, composite (Fiberguard™) stock.

I wonder because Walmart has Vanguards that appear to have the fiberguard stock you mention but are not marked as SUB moa models. I can't find them for sale anywhere else, and they aren't in Weatherby's catalog.

I wonder if they are simply SUB moa models that didn't pass the test. Anybody know?

 

[one eye joe]

Those WalMart models say that they are a Lipsey special model. That is the company that brings out a special Ruger every year. This year it is a stainless international in 6.5x55 or 7x57. Not sure what all else they have "special" made.

 

[BENELLIMONTE]

LJH,

I recently purchased a Vanguard in 300 Win mag. I was pleasantly surprised when I sighted it in. I tried 6 different factory loads and all were within 1"- 1 1/4" inch. Hats off to Weatherby/Howa for producing such a quality rifle at a modest price ($369 after rebate)!

 

[Reid73]

Hi atblis,

If you can find 'normal' Vanguards with fibremark (not cheap injection-molded plastic), pillar-bedded stocks at a good price, I'd say go for it.

As most of us know, all of the Vanguards are accurate rifles. If the better stock is already included, there's probably little point in paying lots more for the MOA version.

 

[Fat_Tony]

Hi BENELLIMONTE,

Will you please post a link to that deal? I would certainly be interested in a new Vanguard for that price!! Thanks in advance.

 

[ArmedBear]

This year it is a stainless international in 6.5x55 or 7x57. Not sure what all else they have "special" made.

Hmmm... I may have to find the money for one of those.