weight or speed more important for bullet?

[Sistema1927]

This is akin to asking a pilot which is more important, altitude or airspeed. Hopefully you never run out of altitude, airspeed, and ideas all at the same time.

 

[jmr40]

In the same caliber, and at any thing close to similar impact speeds the heavier bullet will penetrate deeper. Faster, lighter bullets that expand kill quicker. Assuming they reach the vital organs. If they don't then they will fail.

It depends on the penetration needed to reach vital organs of the game hunted. The requirements for cape buffalo and white tails are vastly different.

 

[Charlie98]

I don’t have or load 44 mag... But your point is clear... so then for 44mag. Why would one use a 180g XTP over a 300gr XTP or vice versa? Distance?

I don't have a .44, either. The point I was trying to make, with what I was assuming was a theoretical question, is the example of the .45 Colt, because of the limits of the cartridge, winds up almost being an either-or, where, with the .44, you have a wider loading range and more appropriate range of bullets. If you are looking for a Jack of all trades, using the .44 as an example, is the generic 240grn bullet... splitting the difference between the extremes.

It depends on the penetration needed to reach vital organs of the game hunted. The requirements for cape buffalo and white tails are vastly different.

That... ^^^ ...pretty much sums up my understanding of bullet selection. Distance requires speed, but that costs. Big animals require weight, which is likely paid for with a slower speed, and therefore, shorter ranges. Bullet selection is important as well... as others have mentioned, some bullets perform well at slower speeds, others at higher velocity. Long ranges... a bullet with a good BC helps. Etc.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

To add to @.38 Special, a bullet shedding large chunks is also called fragmenting.

If a bullet fragments, a higher weight bullet to start with is an advantage , albeit a theoretical one, because the fragments and what is left will have more mass and be able to carry on with more damage done after the fragmentation takes place.

Monometal bullets and to a lesser extent, bonded core bullets, resist fragmenting because they are of a soldid piece of material in the former and an adhered bi-metal material in the latter. These are designs that would be known as “premium” bullets. Non bonded bi metal bullets would generically be called “cup and core” bullets.

Several companies, actually make bullets that intentionally fragment into a predefined number of pieces. Lehigh Defense has this is quite a few pistol and rifle calibers.

I use several of the solid copper or brass bullets from heights defense.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I have deer hunted with both sizes XTP , and found differences mentioned by MCB. The sectional density of the 300 is greater, however velocity of the 250 is more reactive on impact, ie. bigger wound channel. The 300 doesn't mushroom as well unless it hits a bone on impact. Your sight picture, aiming to achieve same trajectory and recoil will be different and the 300 velocity is relative only over a short distance. If you are talking 50 yards or so, it's horse a piece. Greater distance than that, I prefer the 250 in most hunting situations.

Depending on what it is I am trying to shoot, hunting vs SD, and since I haven’t had to fire in SD against an animal yet, I can’t talk to distance on that part. But for what I have hunted. Except for two instances, everything I shot was at less no more then 50 yards. The other two were at no more then 75 yards. Except for one kill (the 75 yards or less). They were all clean kills. All were javelinas and hogs. All smaller animals. Except for the one that required 2 shots at less then 75 yards, and he was a huge hog!

When you have calibers and weights that are a larger variance. I can see where one might want to go for the heavier bullet, or faster speed.

But when they get as close as what I am getting with the 250 and the 300. It just makes me want to scratch my head! Lol

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I don't have a .44, either. The point I was trying to make, with what I was assuming was a theoretical question, is the example of the .45 Colt, because of the limits of the cartridge, winds up almost being an either-or, where, with the .44, you have a wider loading range and more appropriate range of bullets. If you are looking for a Jack of all trades, using the .44 as an example, is the generic 240grn bullet... splitting the difference between the extremes.



That... ^^^ ...pretty much sums up my understanding of bullet selection. Distance requires speed, but that costs. Big animals require weight, which is likely paid for with a slower speed, and therefore, shorter ranges. Bullet selection is important as well... as others have mentioned, some bullets perform well at slower speeds, others at higher velocity. Long ranges... a bullet with a good BC helps. Etc.

Thank you for your time and replies... that’s kinda what I was thinking. One of the reasons I use larger bores for hunting etc... 45 caliber range. This I have a 45 colt, 454 Casull, and 45/70. I don’t get into long range hunting. I like hunting at 75 yards or less. I also only really hunt hogs, and javelina (I do quail but obviously not with a rifle, lol) I have had to kill a couple of coyotes, but that was for predator control, and that was only twice in 40+ years!

I have learned quite a bit from everyone’s replies, and basically has verified many of the things I have thought.

In terms of this 45 colt, and my two loads, it doesn’t really make much difference which of the two I choose, because the differences aren’t that much.

I will probably drop the 250 when I run out, and switch to using only 300’s when I need to replenish my supply. However, with the shortages we are having now. It’s nice to know if I can’t get 300’s, then I really won’t loose much if all I can get are the 250’s

 

[JJFitch]

I recently saw a bumper sticker that stated "Speed Kills" and "Tweekers Suck" on a clunker! So there you have it right off the bumper of a clunker!

To determine expected bullet performance start with your intended purpose. Then seek velocity based on the manufacturer's recommendation. If the manufacturer is selling their product and advertise 1150 FPS I would probably start in that "ball park"!

My barrel will tell me what the optimum velocity might be based on down range accuracy.

I don't worry too much about reduced velocity but I rarely will go too high over advertised velocity due to fragmentation mentioned above.

S/D: Talk to any ER surgeon and they will tell you that once a bullet enters flesh and bones it's difficult to tell one cartridge from another. And difficult to anticipate the end result because of the erratic behavior in the wound channel.

Hunter's will have lots of antidotes too! For me in either case, I'd pick a cartridge that I will practice with, have confidence in and will do the expected job as advertised!

As a 12 year old growing up in Texas, my first hunt was for javelinas. In center fire, I was used to shooting an old 32-20 lever gun on "jacks". My first shot broad side with that 32-20 sent up a dust cloud and the boar "vamoosed"! The following hunt I got to shoot a 30-30 lever gun and got my first "kill"! Did I learn from that? You bet!

Smiles,

 

[Varminterror]

Energy in ft.lbs = bullet mass in grains x velocity in fps squared / 450435
250x1368x1368/450435=1039
300x1305x1305/450435=1134
Around 10% not too significant?

Kinetic Energy is not conserved in real-world, inelastic collisions. MOMENTUM is conserved.

Momentum is simply mass x velocity (I divide by 7000 grains/pound to shrink the numbers to a more palatable scale):

250 * 1368 / 7000 = 48.9 lbm ft / sec
300 * 1305 / 7000 = 55.9 lbm ft / sec

14% greater momentum, which means considerably improved potential for penetration.

Plus, the 300 has a higher sectional density than the 250, .210 vs .175, again, higher potential for penetration.

Folks claiming “velocity kills,” are mistaken about how handgun cartridges like these kill. Rifle bullets impacting over 2,000fps are an entirely different realm of killing, which simply doesn’t apply for handgun/straightwall cartridges. Over a hundred years of collective experience killing game with these cartridges have disproven “speed kills” when it comes to handguns.

Equally, the speculation about a general rule of thumb “higher velocity = better bullet expansion” is also largely a fallacy when you’re NOT comparing identically built bullets. ESPECIALLY for Hornady handgun bullets, which are designed to expand within the expected impact velocities of their respective cartridges.

Personally, when my revolvers or rifles shoot them well, I prefer 300’s over 240/250 class bullets. The performance on game is appreciable.

 

[mavracer]

Speed unless the bullet doesn't weigh enough the weight is as long as it's going fast enough.

 

[Weflyfast]

I can only speak from my experience- but I have found that in the 44 Mag or the .45 Colt new models - that a heavy hard cast flat nose bullet out performed the XTP on large whitetail and black bear-