WEIRD I.J. 12ga SINGLE-SHOT

[45Broomhandle]

I can find very little info on this gun! Here's what Goforth's book says about it:

"Iver Johnson Ejector Single Gun 1897 - 1904

Semi hammerless; ring trigger break open mechanism, single barrel bobbed hammer; 12 gauge only; 28", 30", 32" plain or twist steel barrel choked; ring in front of trigger opens action; rebounding hammer, automatic ejector; American Black Walnut butt stock and fore-end case-hardened frame and browned barrel' weight 7 lbs; overall length 43 3/4" with 28 " barrel; available with shortened butt stock as Junior Model; Ring trigger model available with full hammer after 1900; 16 gauge and barrel lengths of 28" and 32" available after 1900."

Can anyone add any further info? There's one being offered on GB right now, but the seller said the info I sent him (above) was more than he could find. That info was found by a Texas collector I asked for help. He and I both are wondering how the action works. Does the "ring trigger" open the action AND cock the hammer?

I just won the pictured gun today at an online auction from Georgia. The photo is the one they had with the offer. As soon as it's in hand, I'll try to get some better detail photos of it. Right now I'm just looking for any more info I can find.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards from "The Gunshine State" ~ ~ ~ 45Broomhandle

 

[Onmilo]

The ring simply opens the action.
The hammer is rebounding which means after the shot, the hammer bounces back to a half cock position.
Once the gun is loaded, the hammer must be fully cocked by hand in order to fire the weapon.HTH

 

[45Broomhandle]

Thanks for that info, Onmilo. Do you speak from experience, something you've read, or what? I'm really curious about this oddball.

What little info I've unearthed so far is a great help, but it doesn't really answer some of more important questions (important to me at least). For example: I'm 74 and in all those decades have NEVER seen one or even heard mention of one.

I'm curious how many might have been made. Serial numbers are little help.

Do you mind elaborating a bit on WHERE you got this info?

Thanks for any help.

Best regards ~ ~ ~ 45Broomhandle

 

[Onmilo]

One of my regular jobs is working for a gunshop part time as their resident gunsmith.
I see all sorts of stuff come through the shop and keep and maintain a fairly large reference library.

I could not find any specifics to your particular gun but can tell you that it was most likely made in the era between 1905 and 1940.

You will want to have the owner check the barrel to see if it is marked as 'laminated steel', furglers best twist steel', or 'fine twist' or laminated twist, something along that order.
This marking will indicate a damascus twist steel barrel and under no circumstances should you attempt to shoot the gun.

Depending on his honesty, the owner may, or may not, allude to the composition of the barrel.
Most guys know and will feign ignorance if they are trying to dump the gun.

Regardless, these old shotguns are generally not worth anything more than a couple hundred dollars tops and that is, caveat emptor, up to the desires of the buying party.

If the barrel is marked 'genuine armory steel' or 'fluid steel-choke bored' and the inside is not well pitted it may be sound to shoot but I wouldn't recommend using anything heavier than 1 ounce or 1 1/8 ounce field loads.

Light recoil skeet and trap loads would be better.

The old timers did not shoot loads as heavy as the stuff currently available.
A 1 1/4 ounce 3 3/4 dram load was considered as a heavy duck and goose shooting cartridge.

1 1/4 ounce and 1 1/2 ounce were normally used in ten guage guns, not 12 guage.

These old guns just ween't made to handle a steady diet of that sort of load..

Iver Johnson is known to not use steel, but cast iron, in the production of their gun frames, both pistol and long gun.

I share your interest in older shotguns having spent a great deal of my time in an area considered to have some of the best waterfowling anywhere in the nation.

There are thousands of these old guns floating around my neck of the woods, both single and doubles.
Most are very well used and most are regulated to wall hanger status now.

It is not uncommon to come into any rural home in this area and find one of these old shotguns hanging on a mantle or tucked somewhere in the house.

For years I owned two Central Arms double guns, a Central Arms side hammer single and an Iver Johnson White Powder Wonder single shot cannon breech.

I sold three to people as wall hangers and one of the Central Arms double guns went to a Cowboy Action Shooter while I was living in Texas.

I am no expert by any means but I have quite a bit of experience working with these older guns.

 

[45Broomhandle]

Thanks for the additional info, Onmillo. For clarification, I do not collect or have much interest in scatterguns of any kind. I keep a 12ga Ithaca Featherlight 37 pump around strictly as a house gun, loaded with 00 buck - along with a bunch of modern, BIG caliber handguns loaded with HP.

I do own a nice old Marble's Game Getter in 2 1/2" 410 only because it also carries a .22rf strapped to its back. Those are my MAIN interest: U.S. and Canadian made .22rf single-shot guns, older the better, and more oddball the better. Prefer the old cheapies - cheap even in their day. Fancy custom or high-end target stuff not of much interest to me.

First love is the Model 1920 Fiala Arms & Equipment Co. line, especially the 3-bbl sets in fitted case, and any marked (and unmarked) by the various other outfits which ended up owning the company. Got a nice herd of them including five of the sets, with 3 in original cases.



None of my collection are ever shot. I see no use in endangering a historical artifact by firing it, when I have lots of others around I can use instead. I'm very familiar with the older twist barrels, but thanks for the reminder.

I bought this IJ only because it has an interesting action I don't own. I even have an unknown .22rf, unmarked, breechblock flips up and over to the left. Small lever on right side activates the extractor. Unmarked except the number 12 on the frame (under the right grip) and on the inside of the breechblock.

here is what Bill Goforth had to say about the IJ in his book on this maker:

Iver Johnson Ejector Single Gun 1897 - 1904

"Semi hammerless; ring trigger break open mechanism, single barrel bobbed hammer; 12 gauge only; 28", 30", 32" plain or twist steel barrel choked; ring in front of trigger opens action; rebounding hammer, automatic ejector; American Black Walnut butt stock and fore-end case-hardened frame and browned barrel' weight 7 lbs; overall length 43 3/4" with 28 " barrel; available with shortened butt stock as Junior Model; Ring trigger model available with full hammer after 1900; 16 gauge and barrel lengths of 28" and 32" available after 1900."

"Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Firearms 1871 - 1993"
by W. E. Goforth

Once the gun is in hand I will learn a whole lot more about it and will be posting that info here.

Best regards ~ ~ ~ 45Broomhandle

 

[SDC]

I've also heard this shotgun referred to as IJ's "semi-hammerless" model, but thought that it was only in production for two or three years after the turn of the century; if you like oddballs, (and it certainly seems like you do ) I think it'll be an interesting addition.

 

[45Broomhandle]

Hey, SDC have you read any of my posts on CanadianGunNutz forum about my Canadian .22rf rifles? Ross 1912 Commercial Target and a Tobin (Woodstock, Ont.) boy's rifle. The Tobin is not mentioned in any of the known Tobin catalogs from the era. Finally found an ad for it in a 1917 copy of The Rod And Gun In Canada.

Also, my Tobin does not have a round firing pin. Instead its a long, thin, rectangular block of steel which acts on a cam when struck by the hammer! Finally found a guy in Ontario who had owned four of them over several decades and all had round pins. He sold his last one recently at auction up there for $750.



Hows that for an oddball?

Best regards ~ ~ ~ 45Broomhandle

 

[SDC]

Interesting; I would have thought that the flat firing-pin version would have been the more common, as it would have been cheaper to produce. I haven't seen one of these close-up, but it looks like it would operate sort of like a rolling-block, with the breech supported by the step on the hammer, no?

 

[Onmilo]

So, are you going to keep the curious and interested informed when you finally receive this shotgun in hand?

 

[45Broomhandle]

You betchum, Red Ryder! Onmilo, THAT is what collecting, and these forums, is all about. Share the wealth. Help others be informed, and feel free to ASK for help from those who know.

It's all very enjoyable for me, and I've obtained some really great guns from other posters on these forums. I've also LEARNED a lot from other posters.

I've even gone back to threads that have remained idle for more than a year, just to post an answer I've recently found. Surprising how many responses I've gotten from some of those.

Only had one "unfortunate" experience while researching on one of these forums. One guy made it clear he felt he should be PAID by any of us using any of his photos or text. Many other posters were as shocked as I was by his attitude. He pointed out it cost him time and money, going to gun shows and so forth, to learn this stuff, and we should reimburse him for all his investment!!!

DAMN! I just want back those 60 years or so I've invested in this hobby...

Best regards ~ ~ ~ 45Broomhandle

(Permission is hereby granted to any THR poster who wishes to use any of my postings. 45Broomhandle)

 

[ayerspo]

Weird I J Single Shot

Hello Broomhandle,

All the info I have supports Bill Goforth as far as approximate dates of manufacture. There were some variations in these guns. The picture of the one you have posted is a later manufacture. The earliest ones had a large crescent shaped IJ logo which covered most of the left side of the frame and a threaded hindge pin held in place by a paddle shaped piece that folded against the left side of the frame. As Bill said they were offerd in various barrel lengths standard and youth models and in 12 and 16 gauge. Some had pistol grip caps with a IJ logo and some had plain rounded pistol grips.
As to the numbers manufactured and serial numbers assigned I have been unable to find any info in the 20 years I've been collecting Iver Johnson's.
If anyone out there has more info I would appreciate hearing from you.
Hope this helped a bit.
Ayerspo

 

[Brian Williams]

I foolishly gave my non-shooting brother the IJ my Grandfather gave me because he said that grandpa said it would be his someday. It looked just like that one you have, I hope my brother from Georgia did not sell it.
OBTW where are the pictures????

 

[45Broomhandle]

More On Oddballs

ayerspo, thanks for that info. Bill Goforth gave me more info at a later date. This 12ga. scattergun is called the "Improved Model of 1900." It has the hinge pin which is released by a small lever slightly protruding from the bottom of the action.

Here's what Bill wrote: "...from 1900 to 1908. the 'improved model of 1900' uses a spring loaded detent ball to retain the hinge pin and the early models used a screw-in hinge pin. i consider this the first truely modern single barrel shotgun because it features a self-adjusting barrel lock. a 1902 iver johnson catalog show this model to be their most expensive shotgun at $9.50"

The gun has cleaned up beautifully with nice even patina over the barrel, and lots of original case hardening still shows on the receiver. This gun has the rounded pistol grip. I asked Bill about the non-matching numbers on the barrel and action. He said these were not intended back then to be serial numbers, but batch numbers used during assembly of their various guns.

From that same auction I obtain a tiny .22rf single-shot pistol stamped STAR VEST POCKET PISTOL, another I.J. oddball. Bill said those that were marked are exceptionally rare. Here again, the numbers on the barrel and frame do not match. It too was in good working condition. Main flaw was a tiny sliver missing from each rosewood grip.

My cost on these TWO old Iver Johnsons, delivered to my door, was much less than the little pistol is appraised at. I consider myself exceptionally lucky with this find. TWO birds with one stone!

All I can think of is that neither the auction company nor the consignor knew what they were selling.

For those interested in IJs, below is a pic of the Star Vest Pocket.

Best regards ~ ~ ~ 45Broomhandle

 

[45Broomhandle]

Could Be It...

Hi Brian. WOW! This might be that gun! The auction was from GA.

Took LOTS of pics of it for my inventory sheet I keep on each gun. What kind would you like. I posted the overall shot at the beginning of this thread. Got close-ups even of stamped numbers, name on receiver, etc.. Name it and I'll post it.

Best regards ~ ~ ~ 45Broomhandle

 

[Brian Williams]

just a nice side view and I will be happy.

 

[45Broomhandle]

Brian, the side view, overall length, is in my very first post above. Did you want the left side full, or a close up of the left receiver where the name is? Lemme know. Only takes a minute to take one and post if I've not already got it.

I thought you were online standing by. I'll be off line now, so whenever you get around to answering. I'm still at the computer for a while and it will ding if you post or send a PM and I'll come back.

Jack

 

[Brian Williams]

Both left side full and a nice closeup.
Thanx
b

 

[45Broomhandle]

Okay, here's left side full, and a close-up of the left side of the receiver. I had to take some more pics, sorry for the delay...

Best regards ~ ~ ~ 45Broomhandle

 

[thirdworldman]

Another "Star Vest Pocket"

Hello, when I was 7 or 8, my grandmother gave me one of these tiny derringers; she thought it was a toy gun! It has lived in various drawers since, yesterday I dug it out with the intention of researching and restoring it.
The plating is in quite good shape for being apparently well over 100 years old. The grips are gone-I intended to get pearl grips fabricated- do you think this is ok? Or should I get the original rosewood? Thanks, Doug in Ct.

 

[45Broomhandle]

You are LUCKY!

thirdworldman, consider yourself VERY lucky! I would stick with the original as closely as possible. Find some good rosewood.

And, a word of advice. If you separate the barrel from the action, be very careful not to lose the tiny spring hidden under there. It just sits in a small machined-out slit with nothing to hold it in. EASILY LOST!!!

Also, those numbers stamped on the barrel and action may not match. According to Bill Goforth those are NOT serial numbers, but batch numbers - whatever that means...

Best regards ~ ~ ~ 45Broomhandle