Weird Running 40S&W loads with 700x

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Analogkid

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Back in the drought I bought some 700X powder just to have. I have recently set up my xl650 to run a massive amount of .40s&w for my wife's goofy HP carbine that's eating me out of house and home.

I saw load data for this on Hodgdon's website. 4.2-- 4.7 grains under a 180gr berb fp. I'm sitting at 4.5gr with a light crimp. The dies are setup exactly how I run this weight bullet with other powders. Only thing different is this powder. I have ran plenty of 40sw with this same bullet with other powders for my handguns and her carbine . Never any issues.

I've only ran 100 of these but they definitely sound different from one to another. Like light load then heavy load..

For this run I matched headstamps and weighed the charge on every 5th one. I won't match headstamps when I get going on them.

The left over rounds we didn't shoot are Dang near the same weight from completed cartridge to cartridge.

Not enough crimp? Garbage powder? The crimp diameter is within just a few thou of a factory round if you would like to know that?


What say you?
 
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I heard that from around here on other post's. My drop on my Dillon seems to meter it quite well. Every 5th one seemed to be dead on, on the beam and e-scale.
 
I have posted many times about 700X- great powder- meters horribly!!! After you charge a case, weigh them. I get +/- .3 grains at a minimum- which means there could be a difference in each cartridge of .6 grains. Not something to mess with. I have loaded over 5,000 rounds of 9mm (4 pounds) using 700X before switching to other powders. I got tired of weighing just about every charge.
If you weigh 25 individual charges, you will get 15 different results. Some will be what you want, most wont. None of my Lee powder measures can measure this accurately.
A good friend of mine uses a Dillon 550 and says he has no issues. I still have 4 pounds of 700X and I am trying to find a way to get it to meter correctly. I like the powder and I like how it fills the cases, makes it easy to see variations in charges and shoots well.
Matched head stamps don't always weigh the same- or be the same length for that matter. Line up a bunch of matched head stamps, weigh them and measure them, you will be surprised at the variations.
I get a spread of .740 to .765 with most coming in in the .748 to .758 range with .2 grain spread in weight as well.
Not sure if this helped, but more information is better than not enough.
 
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I see they have load data for cfe pistol powder. I will probably go that route. I bought a bunch of that when it first came out and it was cheap. Their starting load with that is more fps than the max 700X. It isn't like any of it is punishing in a carbine.
 
I have used many pounds of 700-X with .the .40, and I find it very consistent. I love 700-X, and I have never had a problem with consistent metering using either my very old RCBS measure or any of 3 different Lee autodisk measures so long as I keep the charge weights above about 3.0g. When I tried loading a bunch of .38s down at 2.2g and 2.5g, I did get variation in charges.

Many people complain loudly about not being able to properly measure 700-X - IMO there are either a whole lot of trashy worthless powder measures out there, or a whole lot of loaders with terrible technique.
 
Analogkid said:
The crimp diameter is within just a few thou of a factory round if you would like to know that?
Click to expand...

SAAMI shows a crimp smaller than the case body by .0001" This is about the same as no crimp. Just removing the bell.

Could to much crimp be sizing the loaded bullet smaller in diameter when crimping ?

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

Steve's pages http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm has a range of
700-X From 4.6 grains to 5.5 grains
Click to expand...
for a 180 grain. Generic load data. But i would have to go with the Hodgdon data first, for safety.

I do get more variation with 700X then Bullseye, but not as much as 800X. Its a good powder, if thats all thats available.
 
700X doesn't meter great, but not horrible either. I like it. 4.5 should be consistent and not feel different from round to round.

Maybe your measure doesn't like it though.
 
I've just pulled 10 of them with a collet puller. 2 of them are 4.6 and the rest are 4.5

I have used my rcbs beam scale a hornady electric scale and a old frankford arsenal scale to verify one another.

Something is goofy here. The powder drop is what I consider pretty consistent.
 
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Analogkid said:
2 of them are 4.6 and the rest are 4.5
Click to expand...

Yea, that is good for 700X. I tried some 700X in .40 some time back and gave up on it. I don't remember which bullet weight. Accuracy was erratic IMO, but I don't remember it feeling different form round to round.
 
Yeah you can definitely hear a difference. Especially standing away from it while it is shot. It isn't like any of them are close to squibing. Just inconsistent.

Super sketchy hearing it run.

No problems with other ammo in it.
 
Analogkid said:
I see they have load data for cfe pistol powder. I will probably go that route. I bought a bunch of that when it first came out and it was cheap. Their starting load with that is more fps than the max 700X. It isn't like any of it is punishing in a carbine.
Click to expand...
I can't speak for 700x in .40 but I've used a good bit of it in 10mm for 200gr low velocity loads. Typically it shoots well but meters like crap, and also doesn't yeild much in the way of velocity for a given charge. I don't think the crimp is responsible for your issues, I think it is variations in charge weights. The 700 really does just meter that poorly in most cases. These days I use a great deal of the CFE Pistol and I love the stuff, so I would recommend the switch. Copper fouling is more of an issue with high velocity rifle loads than it is for medium velocity pistol loads obviously, but the powder itself performs well enough and I don't mind the added benefit of a defouler in the mix. Currently I use loads with CFE for 9mm, 10mm, and .45 ACP and It is pretty much the sole powder I use these days for 10mm target loads. A 180 FMJ behind a moderate charge of CFE is just super pleasant to shoot and very accurate. My velocities aren't anything incredible with CFE in the 10mm, and probably won't be in .40 either but the accuracy is there and it meters well so for a target load who cares. Also CFE seems to be readily available at for $20/lb in my area so it's easy to get a hold of at any given time. If you want max velocity/PF loads try some Power Pistol or AA#7, but for an efficient plinking or target load I think the CFE will serve you well.
 
DeadEye9 said:
I can't speak for 700x in .40 but I've used a good bit of it in 10mm for 200gr low velocity loads. Typically it shoots well but meters like crap, and also doesn't yeild much in the way of velocity for a given charge. I don't think the crimp is responsible for your issues, I think it is variations in charge weights. The 700 really does just meter that poorly in most cases. These days I use a great deal of the CFE Pistol and I love the stuff, so I would recommend the switch. Copper fouling is more of an issue with high velocity rifle loads than it is for medium velocity pistol loads obviously, but the powder itself performs well enough and I don't mind the added benefit of a defouler in the mix. Currently I use loads with CFE for 9mm, 10mm, and .45 ACP and It is pretty much the sole powder I use these days for 10mm target loads. A 180 FMJ behind a moderate charge of CFE is just super pleasant to shoot and very accurate. My velocities aren't anything incredible with CFE in the 10mm, and probably won't be in .40 either but the accuracy is there and it meters well so for a target load who cares. Also CFE seems to be readily available at for $20/lb in my area so it's easy to get a hold of at any given time. If you want max velocity/PF loads try some Power Pistol or AA#7, but for an efficient plinking or target load I think the CFE will serve you well.
Click to expand...
Also, don't get hung up on the velocities quoted by the CFE load Data if you actually own a chronograph because you will likely be disappointed. My ladder tests in 10mm with the CFE loads proved very accurate as I stated but the velocities were WELL below what was stated in the data. My test bed was a G20 gen 3.
 
700X-Used it, hated it, dumped the last 1/2 lb of it in the garden last winter. Good luck. I run nothing but CFE in my 40's and 9mm. Back up is HS6.
 
For me 700X has been accurate in 40S&W. My loads are around 4.6gr, but that is for 165gr, not 180gr. I use a dipper and scale for each round, so maybe that is why I am getting some consistency using 700X.
 
vaalpens said:
For me 700X has been accurate in 40S&W. My loads are around 4.6gr, but that is for 165gr, not 180gr. I use a dipper and scale for each round, so maybe that is why I am getting some consistency using 700X.
Click to expand...
Yea a dipper and scale or a trickler and scale are going to be the most concistant loads period because each one is getting weighed. If your using a powder throw you might set it for 4.5gr and because of the poor metering properties of 700x you might end up with anywhere from 3.8-5.2 or so. If you spot check it and happen to get one that is close to the 4.5 you want, you would think it's accurate but really every other load is off by multiple tenths. 700 isn't a bad powder it just meters poorly in most common throws.
 
It is one of the best propellants for me in 45 ACP. Clean burning and accurate as can be. BUT I use a custom made dipper to measure charges and load it using the batch method. Using a powder throw always yields poor results for me.YMMV
 
I have loaded 45 ACP with 700-X for decades. I guess you could say I like it.

The key to good metering, plus/minus a fat 0.1 grain, is to cycle the powder measure the same way every time, but it will never meter as well as a ball powder. This can be difficult at times on a progressive as lots of stuff going on that can cause extra vibrations in the powder measure.

My last couple batches were run on a Dillon SDB which probably has a similar powder measure as the OP's XL650 and things go just fine. But, I do not size or prime on the SDB.

If I remember correctly, I have the small charge bar on the 45 ACP powder measure. I also load 700-X in 380 ACP on a Dillon SDB. That powder measure has the extra small charge bar on it.

I've not tried 700-X in 40 S&W as I have historically saved my 700-X for 45 ACP.
 
Only powder that ever gave me a squib. Hated it when it was just about all I had, the last part of the jug went into the garden when I could get something else.
 
I just completed a run of .40SW with 180gr XTreme bullets 4.5 grains of powder. I am switching back to 165gr Xtreme bullets for the next run. I have loaded many rounds with 700x. It is a great shotshell and decent pistol powder.

As you all know 800X meters horribly due to the larger flake size. I hated it for pistol and used the 800X up by loading trap loads on my MEC9000g.

700X seems to meter ok in my Dillon 550b and I use a lot of it for plinking loads. 700x is a fast burn powder. I am staying is the middle for charge weight.

Don't throw your 700x away. However there are plenty of other powders available. Go buy something else.
 
I definitely agree it's not bad enough to trash it as fertilizer. In fact I would say 700x isn't "bad" at all, as it makes decent loads. It is just very picky. If your used to something that meters super easy like W231 and then go to the HiSkor it's going to seem like a whole different ballgame. For those that have powder throws that can work well with it though, or those who weigh each charge it can make some outstanding loads from what I've seen. That fact alone is why I wouldn't trash it.
 
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