Well I can't use snubbie in IDPA from a pocket holster?? How about this??

[Shazam]

So IDPA wont let me use my snubbie (j frame, 642!!) from a pocket holster...in competition..I know about the safety issue....but this is how sooo many of us carry our snubbies..

I would so much like to train the way I carry....I am not into the competition aspect of it as I am about getting good training time in with my j frame in as realistic format as possible.

Is there anyone in the Michigan Area (SouthEastern Michigan, Metro Detroit) area that would like to train with their snubbies and pocket rocket type pistols (Keltec, Kahr PM9) in a realistic manner...

I live in a Detroit Suburb and have to drive 45 minutes (min) to get to a decent outdoor range...I refuse to breath lead from indoor ranges that are just sterile training environments. Anyone out there have some land where we could set up our own realistic training environment.....

All comments welcomed....

Thank you in advance....

Shazam


__________________
No matter where you go there you are!!

 

[Mike Irwin]

Given that cocked & locked from an inside the waistband holster is allowed, I really have to wonder about some of IDPA's rules...

Unfortunately, I'm seeing happening to it what has happened to so many other shooting sports -- the "gentrification process," where its original aims are lost amid a sea of hyper competitive shooters whose only concern is shaving another .00005 seconds off his time.

Realistic scenarios are being subjegated for unrealistic aims.

I threw a bunch of people into a SERIOUS tizzy one evening when I attempted to wear my speedloader pouches on the side opposite the holster.

"YOU CAN'T DO THAT!"

Why? That's how I do it when I'm actually CARRYING this gun as a defensive weapon, for God's sake.

 

[TonyB]

IDPA has big thing about "sweeping"yourself.....that's why no pocket holsters...some don't even allow IWB holsters.....Yeah I think we need more shooting w/ the guns we actually carry too......but IDPA makes a big deal out of saying it is a game...probably CYA move......I use my SP 101(5shot) sometimes anyway(just reload a bunch)......But I carry in a belt holster.Maybe try to get together w/ some of the IDPA guys aside from an actual match or practice and do some "realistic" shooting.......I mean in real life how many times are you attacked by 6 people
I still like IDPA and I view it as somewhere between a game and training..

 

[StuporDave]

Don't in the least consider IDPA or IPSC/USPSA any form of training. It's not. It's a game and only a game.
I have this fear that some person somewhere will get themselves killed by using games as training. "Hey, that bad guy didn't follow the rules! No fair!"

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against the games. I used to do the IPSC thing and really enjoyed it. Probably will do it again eventually. As long as folks treat it is a game it's fine. Treating games as real world training is dangerous, IMHO.

Dave

 

[Bob Locke]

I'd like to second the comments in the previous post.

IDPA and IPSC are competitve formats (taken too far on some levels, IMO) that are useful for measuring your training, and they can be good learning reinforcements for what you are doing at the range. But I wouldn't really consider either of them "training".

 

[DrDremel]

As a 642 carrier that lives in Mt. Clemens, I would be very interested in such practice. I don't compete in IDPA for the very reason that it is more game oriented than training oriented. If you are organizing something, let me know, I would be interested. Thanks.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Sweeping yourself..."

Read over the IDPA rules again. IWB specifically allowed, pocket specifically disallowed. Doesn't make sense. You don't sweep yourself any more or less thoroughly with one over the other.

"Don't in the least consider IDPA or IPSC/USPSA any form of training."

I don't consider IDPA to be training.

I do, however, consider it to be practice. And IDPA's bylaws and charter appear to consider it to be something in between -- saying the words sport, but placing emphasis on "real world" scenarios with "real world" equipment.

As I said, I fear it's going the way of PPC, Sporting Clays, and others. I really think that within 10 years you're going to see a lot of the rules on use of modified guns fall as the wankers who want to shoot the $5,000 GPS located, gyro stabilized, rocket recoil reduction assisted guns manage to take over and change the rules to what they want.

 

[English John]

Shoot anyway

Go ahead and participate anyway. As long as you are happy in NOT winning first place, you can use the practice under stress. Most of the rules are for safety, some of them even make sense. Everybody above is right, it is a GAME but it does induce stress. If the top shooters are interested in trophies that's OK, if they think they will be wearing their race guns when the ball drops they are deluding themselves. I used to compete with my Sam Brown because that's what I wore on duty and I needed the practice, our qualification was mostly PPC. Show them this: Let your top shooter and an average shooter shoot El Presidente. I'll bet the top shooter's 5th shot is slower than the average shooter's 1st shot. If the average shooter was target #3, he would shoot the top shooter first. Hmmmm.... It was popular to put a BG w/ a shotgun behind the door of the funhouse, and the race guys could clear the house and shoot the BG after their reload and keep running. In real life they would die. Welcome to the real world. It's more fun, and good training, to shoot bowling pins. Go ahead and shoot, just decide if you want to save 0.01 Seconds or your hide. English John

 

[another okie]

The draw is only one part of an IDPA match. Even if you normally pocket carry, as I do sometimes, the other parts (shooting, moving, cover, reloading) are all good practice, or measurement of skill, or whatever term matches your perception.

 

[Mikul]

Part of the IDPA safety officer's job is to keep the shooter safe by watching his trigger finger especially on the draw and re-holser. He can't do that with a pocket holster.

Yes. It's a CYA thing.

 

[Correia]

Some of you guys have obviously never been a safety officer during an IDPA match. There is a reason that pocket holsters are not allowed, it is a safety issue. The safety rules need to be drawn up for the lowest common denominator of shooter. I'm sure most of us would be fine with pocket carry in a match, but there will be that one guy who puts an extra hole in his body. You don't want to be the SO when that happens.

As was pointed out, the draw is one small part of the overall game. Shoot your carry gun, the actual shooting part is still the same. I carry in a belly band 80% of the time, but I can't use it in IDPA because it does not fit the safety rules. Fine. I shoot the same gun out of the holster I use the other 20% of the time.

As for the gamers taking over with fancy race guns, ya'll ain't been to many IDPA matches have you? IDPA rules are very strict on the use of race guns, no bull barrels, no compensators, no dot sights, strict capacity limits, strict holster rules. In fact some times we think they get a little to strict as they sometimes forbid guns that people actually use daily, but the rules are erring on the side of caution to prevent the use of unrealistic race only guns.

IDPA is just a game, but it is far better practice than plinking at bowling pins with a box of ammo sitting on the bench in front of you. You shoot on the move, using cover, etc. I shoot steel matches and bowling pins too. But standing in one place and popping off at static targets isn't exactly challenging or stressful. El Prez is just a drill. I can run it in about 8 seconds. Doesn't mean guy number 3 is going to kill me in real life, it just means that I can perform an El Prez in 8 seconds. That and 50 cents will get you a soda at the vending machines at the range.

I won't knock good solid training from a good gun school, but for most of us the cost of one class at a 1st rate training facility is the equivilent of 2 years worth of IDPA matches a couple times a month.

Tony, as a match director, let me address you concern about unrealistic stages. How often are you going to fight 6 guys? Odds are probably never. But here is the catch. If I designed every single stage as realistically as possible, then we would all get really really tired of shooting the single bad guy target at 7 feet or less. If I prepare a 6 stage match, where every stage is shooting the "average realistic" shooting scenario, I can guarentee that 95% of my shooters are not going to come back for the next match. Besides if you get to the point where you can pop 6 targets easily then 1 target should be a piece of cake.

For those of you who don't think the stages are realistic enough, feel free to design some good stages and submit them to your local match director. This is the guy who has to wrack his brain to come up with about 80 or so stages a year, that are fun, challenging, stay with in the rules, and are shootable for the least skilled shooter but not to easy for the master class guys.

And I've said this before, and I'll say it again. If I knew that I was going to get into a gunfight, and I could choose my opponent from a guy (the average shooter) who plinks at beer cans out in the desert once in awhile or a Expert or Master class IDPA shooter, I'm taking the plinker every time.

 

[dukeofurl]

See above post.

As a MD, I can relate. Do you know how freaking hard it is getting course of fire ideas?

It actually gets to a point where I hang around the IPSC boys just to get new ideas. IPSC has some interesting COF's and I've modified several sucessfully by adding the use of cover and utilizing less movement to make a kickass IDPA stage.

 

[Browns Fan]

I've got to agree with Correia, just because IDPA is fun (actually, a lot of fun ), don't discount it's training value!