Wells Fargo - Baby Dragoon hybrid

[sackettboys]

Back in the what I call the heydays of blackpowder replicas (late 70's thru early 90s), I ran the gaunlet of pistols from a Westerner Arms .44 cal 1860 w/shoulder stock, various .31s, .36s and .44s Colts & Rems up a Navy Arms .58 cal 1855 pistol carbine. I remembered one revolver in particular, a steel framed .31 1848 or 1849 with a part octogon and round barrel. It looked like a mini Leech and Rigdon but in .31 caliber.

I started looking again for one but no one seemed to be making this pistol with a part octogon and round barrel or had ever made a .31 with with this style barrel. I started thinking after all these years I must had gotten it confused with something else (my memory isn't the greatest these days).
But I stumbled across one on a auction site and lo and behold it has come home to me.

Now for the particulars, barrel length is 5 3/4" long, steel frame, 5 shot cylinder w/stagecoach scene. No makers mark other than the word Marco (Armi San Marco?) on the left side of the frame. Made in Italy stamped underneath the barrel. .31 cal is stamped by the rammer hinge and the Italian proof marks and date code XXV (1969) are on the right side of the frame.

Not as polished as a Uberti or Pietta, but still an interesting piece. I have only seen one other like this, has anyone seen any others? Now I need to get a Leech and Rigdon to go with her.........

 

[madcratebuilder]

A mini Schneider&Glassick. I'll have to keep an eye out for one. It has a loading lever? I need to go through my CSA revolver books and see if they did build any 51 clones other than .36.

 

[Fingers McGee]

Great find. Never knew thay existed. BPRevolver would probably be interested in this variation for his book.

FM

 

[Cap'n Billy]

Looks like some of us DO have some more unique pieces...





You folks get to tell ME if it looks more like a Leech - Rigdon, or a Grizzwald - Gunnison...

Track back through all the proof marks, it IS a Uberti from 1974.

I call it my short gun (5 inch barrel) because it's shorter than my Navys, but LONGER than my Peacemaker!

 

[StrawHat]

sackettboys,

Go for the L&R if you want but I think a Baby Dragoon needs it Pappy, a 2nd or 3rd Model would look right sharp with that little gun.

 

[StrawHat]

Cap'n Billy,

That is the only brass framed Uberti I recall seeing. Is it marked with the importer's name?

 

[madcratebuilder]

Looks like some of us DO have some more unique pieces...





You folks get to tell ME if it looks more like a Leech - Rigdon, or a Grizzwald - Gunnison...

Track back through all the proof marks, it IS a Uberti from 1974.

I call it my short gun (5 inch barrel) because it's shorter than my Navys, but LONGER than my Peacemaker!

Navy Arms sold a lot of those in both .36 and .44. I have both a .36 and .44, one with a 7 1/4" barrel and the other at 3" (I cut it) Did you shorten that barrel yours or buy it at that lenght? Leech&Rigdon, Griswold&Gunnison or Schneider&Glassick, those round barrel 51's are cool, but very common.

sackettboys .31 is a rare bird, that is a true pocket frame size, not a holster frame with a "pocket" name that Pietta does.

 

[Cap'n Billy]

madcratebuilder,
It DOES indeed say Navy Arms Company, Ridgefield N.J. But I had read that Navy Arms were supplied by Uberti...it IS a .44, and no, the barrel is factory.
Being as I am a re-enactor, I'm looking to find a steel frame for it and convert it, even though live rounds may never be fired through it.

 

[Cap'n Billy]

Though my proof marks date this on at 74...Cabela's seems to be offering it as the "1851 Navy Round Barrel .44-Caliber Sheriff Pistol"

 

[CapnTrainwreck]

I've got one of those in a .36 with a 7.5" barrel. Points naturally and is my favorite C&B. If anyone has another Navy arms round barreled .36 that needs a new home i always wanted a brace of these.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I've got one of those in a .36 with a 7.5" barrel. Points naturally and is my favorite C&B. If anyone has another Navy arms round barreled .36 that needs a new home i always wanted a brace of these.

Keep an eye on Gunbroker, they show up often.

It DOES indeed say Navy Arms Company, Ridgefield N.J. But I had read that Navy Arms were supplied by Uberti...it IS a .44, and no, the barrel is factory.

Navy Arms used several suppliers but the two round barreled 51's I have are both Uberti's, one is marked and the other is not.

 

[messerist]

Here is my "little brother-big brother" suite. A .36 cal. Leech and Rigdon and a 3rd Model Dragoon.

 

[bprevolver]

Sackettboys: You are a lucky man. The 1849 Pocket Model/Dragoon Barrel was manufactured by Armi San Marco. These are very rare. I over 18yrs of research and collecting I have only come across two. Yours is the second. RPRCA has one in its collection with a 4” barrel made in 1974. Yours was made in 1969.

Armi San Marco did some strange pieces back then. We have a 2nd Model Dragoon with the wedge entering from the right instead of left to right. This was sold by Replica Arms. After Armi San Marco was sold to American Western Arms, all production of percussion revolvers ceased. Shortly thereafter the son of the founder (deceased) of ASM resumed production of a limited number of percussion revolvers. One was a 3rd Model Dragoon with the wedge going right to left. At this time there was a working relationship with Palmetto in sharing parts. Now both companies are deceased.

 

[bprevolver]

Sackettboys: You mentioned having a revolver marked Westerner Arms. Did you buy this one new? Westerner Arms is one of the companies that I can find no history about. They were made by Uberti and the only assumption that I have come to is that Westerner Arms may have been a transitional company name after Winchester jumped on Western Arms and forced them not to use that name. It eventually became Allen Arms and then Cimarron. A company called Old West was also in there somewhere. Anybody know anything else about Westerner Arms or Old West?

 

[sackettboys]

bprevolver -
Thank you for the background on my .31 revolver. I also have only see two of this variation, the other being just like the one I own with a 5 3/4" barrel.

As to the .44 cal 1860 Westerner Arms revolver, it was the model with the cutout for the shoulder stock. I did purchase it new, in Northern California back in 1974-75 at a place called Sim's Hardware in Sacramento. It was combination hardware / gun store. Boy, those were the days, that place carrried everything from Colt Pythons and Snider Enfields to literally the kichen sink. Unfortunately I don't have that piece anymore, having traded it off back in the 80's in my quest for newer toys. Ah the ignorance of youth......

 

[KellyQ]

Sackettboys: You are a lucky man. The 1849 Pocket Model/Dragoon Barrel was manufactured by Armi San Marco. These are very rare. I over 18yrs of research and collecting I have only come across two. Yours is the second. RPRCA has one in its collection with a 4” barrel made in 1974. Yours was made in 1969.

Armi San Marco did some strange pieces back then. We have a 2nd Model Dragoon with the wedge entering from the right instead of left to right. This was sold by Replica Arms. After Armi San Marco was sold to American Western Arms, all production of percussion revolvers ceased. Shortly thereafter the son of the founder (deceased) of ASM resumed production of a limited number of percussion revolvers. One was a 3rd Model Dragoon with the wedge going right to left. At this time there was a working relationship with Palmetto in sharing parts. Now both companies are deceased.

I was researching a pair of the same revolvers and found your old thread. I have the 3rd and 4th. Thanks for the information. Can anyone give advice on best place to sell these two 1849 Pocket Model/Dragoon Barrel ASM reproductions?

 

[SC_Slowhand]

Baby Dragoons



I've always had a thing for the Baby Dragoons, in this case a Colt Model 1849 (Mfg. 1860) Pocket Pistol, shown beneath a Uberti 1848 Colt Dragoon (3rd).

I wouldn't mind having a replica. At the right price.