I forgot to add 1/4 tsp. of Lemishine to a batch of brass i was wet tumbling and ended up with a batch of gray brass. It took another 2 hours of tumbling to get it clean. Sure glad I'm retired cause I've been spending a lot of time correcting things I messed up due to little mistakes. I had just switched from using Ajax dishwashing liquid to auto wash with wax and I sure didn't expect the results I got.
Wet Tumbling? Don't Forget The Lemishine.
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Gummi Bear
Member
Add too much Lemishine, and you get black brass.
Freaked me out when it happened. After a thorough rinse, and proper amounts of soap and Lemishine, I got nice bright brass.
Freaked me out when it happened. After a thorough rinse, and proper amounts of soap and Lemishine, I got nice bright brass.
Gummi Bear
Member
I've never run mine without LemiShine, so I can neither confirm nor deny what happened.
I use 1/4 teaspoon of Lemishine
1 tablespoon of dish soap
1 gallon of water
I think this recipe is pretty good, and if your water conditions are different, you may have to adjust the LemiShine.
When I was still figuring all this stuff out, I was experimenting with different amounts of stuff to see what happened.
I turned a batch of brass pink when I went through my vinegar experiments.
I use 1/4 teaspoon of Lemishine
1 tablespoon of dish soap
1 gallon of water
I think this recipe is pretty good, and if your water conditions are different, you may have to adjust the LemiShine.
When I was still figuring all this stuff out, I was experimenting with different amounts of stuff to see what happened.
I turned a batch of brass pink when I went through my vinegar experiments.
AV8TOR
Member
I am using the small Harbor Freight 3 pound tumbler for my 9mm brass. Cleans 100-120 brass in 1-1/2 hours really nice. I settled in on a 3cc Lee Dipper's worth of LemiShine and always shiny.
I've tried Simple Green HD "Purple" with Lemishine, and got good results. About the same as Dawn and Lemi, but less suds. But, you have to use more of the SG, so I'm back to Dawn/Lemi and it's more econmical and get the same results. But, with the Lemi, it does shine much more than without. I use a 9mm case full in the Frankford Arsenal tumbler..
Capybara
Member
Lemishine is a ripoff for what it is. You can get a 5 pounder of bulk Citric Acid, enough to last for hundreds of thousands of cases being tumbled for $17.99 I use a 9mm case full to do a few hundred cases. If you overdo it with the Citric Acid, weird things happen with the case color
http://www.amazon.com/Citric-Acid-N...F8&qid=1448040994&sr=8-5&keywords=Citric+Acid
http://www.amazon.com/Citric-Acid-N...F8&qid=1448040994&sr=8-5&keywords=Citric+Acid
Sunray
Member
Forget the Lemishine, it's not necessary. Brass needs to be clean, not shiney.
carbine85
Member
EXACTLY. Why does everyone need bright shinny new looking brass when it only has to be clean and gets trashed after 1 shot.
Lately all I do is drop in Simple Green, resize, and tumble for about 1 hour, done.Always seems to shoot as well.
GBExpat
Member
<shrug> Some of us like shiny, looks-like-new brass and the cost if tiny. Free country, dontchaknow.
judgedelta
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I tried the auto-polish with wax once and the brass came out grey and kind of sticky. Never used again. Back to dishwashing liquid and Lemi.
GBExpat
Member
ArmorAll Wash&Wax?
mongoose33
Member
I used Armor-All wash and wax today for the first time and it worked great. Warm water, a glug of the Armor All, maybe a 1/4 teaspoon of Lemi-Shine, and an hour later this is what I had:
Next time I'll let it go a little longer, might add a little more Wash and Wax. I especially liked how the suds were fewer than the Dawn dishwashing liquid I was using.
Handloader109
Member
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I have used several different brands of auto wash and wax and The brass is clean and shiny. The citric acid is not necessarily the only way. And cheap is fine.
Just another idea to share. Your experience is almost exactly the same as what has happened to me. This summer a neighbor wanted me to wash up his 223 brass (300-400 pieces). I put them in and started to wash. When I went to get them out I thought for a fraction of a second, "why did I wash wolf casings?" The brass went in looking like brass and came out looking like wolf steel cases. I did every thing exactly the same as with other batches.
I looked inside my home made PVC tumbler and it was coated with a black wax like residue. I tried to figure it out what happened or what did I do different, so I asked the neighbor what his reloading process was and the only difference was the lube he used while reloading. He used the roll method on an RCBS Lube pad and I have always used Hornady one shot. I washed for another couple of hours and looked good again.
So, it was the lube! Not sure if this is the same situation but just a thought. I have tried all sorts of different amounts of Lemishine and to be honest, it has always looked about the same. After this thread I think I must always be in the right range because mine has never turned black thank goodness. Good luck
I looked inside my home made PVC tumbler and it was coated with a black wax like residue. I tried to figure it out what happened or what did I do different, so I asked the neighbor what his reloading process was and the only difference was the lube he used while reloading. He used the roll method on an RCBS Lube pad and I have always used Hornady one shot. I washed for another couple of hours and looked good again.
So, it was the lube! Not sure if this is the same situation but just a thought. I have tried all sorts of different amounts of Lemishine and to be honest, it has always looked about the same. After this thread I think I must always be in the right range because mine has never turned black thank goodness. Good luck
btaylor73, I think your on the wrong track in thinking an RCBS lube pad vs Hornady One Shot = gray brass????
The #1 reason for gray brass that I have found is due to leaving it tumble for too long. I think you'll find if you keep your tumble time down to 6 hrs. max your brass will turn out looking shiney and new. Primer pockets and all.
The #2 reason would be you had a piece of aluminum or steel brass mixed in. Remove the offending piece(s).
If it does turn gray, just put it back in the tumbler with new solution for 2 hrs. or so and it should turn out looking shiney and new.
If it still is gray after this then your pins need cleaning. Put some new solution in with the pins alone and tumble them for about an hour and then rinse them really good. Put the brass back in with some new solution and your brass will come out looking shiney and new.
I think you get my jest. Don't tumble too long and sort before tumbling.
Hope this Helps,
Joe's
The #1 reason for gray brass that I have found is due to leaving it tumble for too long. I think you'll find if you keep your tumble time down to 6 hrs. max your brass will turn out looking shiney and new. Primer pockets and all.
The #2 reason would be you had a piece of aluminum or steel brass mixed in. Remove the offending piece(s).
If it does turn gray, just put it back in the tumbler with new solution for 2 hrs. or so and it should turn out looking shiney and new.
If it still is gray after this then your pins need cleaning. Put some new solution in with the pins alone and tumble them for about an hour and then rinse them really good. Put the brass back in with some new solution and your brass will come out looking shiney and new.
I think you get my jest. Don't tumble too long and sort before tumbling.
Hope this Helps,
Joe's
As far as why bother cleaning the brass is concerned, it's because I spent 22 years in the Navy and one thing I learned was you better keep your brass shiny.
The main reason I switched over to wet tumbling was because I reload a lot of military brass. Some of that some stuff comes covered in grease, oil, etc., and I really don't want that gunk in my guns so I clean it by wet tumbling. Before I used walnut with Dillon brass polish and then finished it in corn with Nu-finish car polish. It still took hours to get the gunk off this brass. Wet tumbling in a Thumler's Tumbler with a squirt of Ajax dish washing liquid and a 1/4 teaspoon of Lemishine will get me much cleaner brass in just about the same amount of time.
I don't believe there was any steel cases in this batch or the magnet I use to check for stray pins after I separate the brass from the pins would probably have caught it. If there was an aluminum case covered in brass possibly, but I've never heard of any such casings.
I have used the RCBS spray and pad lube together for many years when resizing my brass (outside pad, inside neck spray lube) and have never had a reaction like this from the combination of lubes.
I don't think it was left in the tumbler too long as I have a timer on my tumbler for 5 hours and I pulled this load almost immediately after the it stopped tumbling. This leads me to believe that I either forgot the Lemishine or added too much to the mix. This was the 2nd load using the ArmorAll wash and wax liquid and I must have gotten the amounts of one of the ingredients wrong. I am now adding 1 oz of the ArmorAll and 1/4 tsp. of Lemishine and the brass comes out great. As I mentioned this is the first time I've experienced something like this in the 3 or 4 years I've been using the stainless pins and hopefully the last. I'll just chalk this up to one of life's little mysteries unless it happens again. In that case I'll go back to using Ajax and Lemishine.
The main reason I switched over to wet tumbling was because I reload a lot of military brass. Some of that some stuff comes covered in grease, oil, etc., and I really don't want that gunk in my guns so I clean it by wet tumbling. Before I used walnut with Dillon brass polish and then finished it in corn with Nu-finish car polish. It still took hours to get the gunk off this brass. Wet tumbling in a Thumler's Tumbler with a squirt of Ajax dish washing liquid and a 1/4 teaspoon of Lemishine will get me much cleaner brass in just about the same amount of time.
I don't believe there was any steel cases in this batch or the magnet I use to check for stray pins after I separate the brass from the pins would probably have caught it. If there was an aluminum case covered in brass possibly, but I've never heard of any such casings.
I have used the RCBS spray and pad lube together for many years when resizing my brass (outside pad, inside neck spray lube) and have never had a reaction like this from the combination of lubes.
I don't think it was left in the tumbler too long as I have a timer on my tumbler for 5 hours and I pulled this load almost immediately after the it stopped tumbling. This leads me to believe that I either forgot the Lemishine or added too much to the mix. This was the 2nd load using the ArmorAll wash and wax liquid and I must have gotten the amounts of one of the ingredients wrong. I am now adding 1 oz of the ArmorAll and 1/4 tsp. of Lemishine and the brass comes out great. As I mentioned this is the first time I've experienced something like this in the 3 or 4 years I've been using the stainless pins and hopefully the last. I'll just chalk this up to one of life's little mysteries unless it happens again. In that case I'll go back to using Ajax and Lemishine.
Century Limited
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Oh, the mysteries of tumbled brass. I began reloading a year or so ago, and chose to go the Thumler's tumbler and stainless steel pins route. I generally tumbled my brass for about 3 hours using only a couple drops (likely less than 1/4 tsp unless get carried away as just squeeze bottle until comes out) of dawn dish soap and the goal of 1/4 tsp limestone (again shake container and hope for just the small amount but sometimes get more). My brass has always come out shiny. I then dump pins through cheap media separator pan over 5 gallon bucket as space is a premium and going the space saving route over a spinning separator. I rinse brass in my sink, then proceed to use my air compressor and blow the remaining water off the brass. I have always been concerned if I get the limestone rinsed off thoroughly.
My dad just gave me a bunch of brass, some likely a good 50 years old and looking pretty much brown in color. I chose to tumble for 4 hours and much of the brass came out looking like new, some with a slightly off color but shiny nonetheless.
Finally, on to the mysteries...
I was given some 7mm magnum cases that were brass, and some that were silver in color, likely nickel plated. I believe these were Winchester cases (others are F-C). I tumbled these between 3 and 4 hours. I followed same procedure rinsing and blowing them off. When done, I separated by headstamp to inventory and pack away as I do not even have a 7mm mag yet. Just hen it dawned on me that I was separating all brass colored cases, not a speck of silver color to be seen. Would these cases have lost all their coating in the tumbler? If so, from tumbling pins, or from limestone/soap mix?
Next mystery..more of a concern. I finished tumbling a batch of 9mm after the family went to bed and decided to simply rinse the brass and let it soak in fresh water until morning, when I would rinse once again and blow it off. (air compressor in garage on other side of wall of the kids bedroom) The brass became tarnished at points of contact with other brass. It looks cosmetic only until use flash to take picture. Did I ruin this brass? Should I be concerned that I am slowly damaging all my brass? Do I need to rinse better? Should we all be concerned with the semi-shine? I plan on using it, but have that little voice going in my head.
I did not plan on taking before/after of 30-30 brass, but took these to send my dad when I thanked him. The 9mm brass is the same, but I moved it to figure out better picture with/without flash and was surprised how different it looked.
My dad just gave me a bunch of brass, some likely a good 50 years old and looking pretty much brown in color. I chose to tumble for 4 hours and much of the brass came out looking like new, some with a slightly off color but shiny nonetheless.
Finally, on to the mysteries...
I was given some 7mm magnum cases that were brass, and some that were silver in color, likely nickel plated. I believe these were Winchester cases (others are F-C). I tumbled these between 3 and 4 hours. I followed same procedure rinsing and blowing them off. When done, I separated by headstamp to inventory and pack away as I do not even have a 7mm mag yet. Just hen it dawned on me that I was separating all brass colored cases, not a speck of silver color to be seen. Would these cases have lost all their coating in the tumbler? If so, from tumbling pins, or from limestone/soap mix?
Next mystery..more of a concern. I finished tumbling a batch of 9mm after the family went to bed and decided to simply rinse the brass and let it soak in fresh water until morning, when I would rinse once again and blow it off. (air compressor in garage on other side of wall of the kids bedroom) The brass became tarnished at points of contact with other brass. It looks cosmetic only until use flash to take picture. Did I ruin this brass? Should I be concerned that I am slowly damaging all my brass? Do I need to rinse better? Should we all be concerned with the semi-shine? I plan on using it, but have that little voice going in my head.
I did not plan on taking before/after of 30-30 brass, but took these to send my dad when I thanked him. The 9mm brass is the same, but I moved it to figure out better picture with/without flash and was surprised how different it looked.
Attachments
If Parker 51 want's to shoot shiny brass it is his right to shoot shiny brass. It all started with this.
pursuit of happiness - Legal Definition. n. An inalienable right enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, in addition to life and liberty; the right to pursue any legal activity as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. Same as you have the right to shoot dirty brass if you want. Parker is trying to be helpful. That is why we come to forums to help each other in the pursuit of our enjoyment or our constitutional rights. Is shiny brass now politically incorrect for the brass police? Rant over and I spent my 2 cents.
pursuit of happiness - Legal Definition. n. An inalienable right enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, in addition to life and liberty; the right to pursue any legal activity as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. Same as you have the right to shoot dirty brass if you want. Parker is trying to be helpful. That is why we come to forums to help each other in the pursuit of our enjoyment or our constitutional rights. Is shiny brass now politically incorrect for the brass police? Rant over and I spent my 2 cents.
Crashbox
Member
Capybara said:
I agree 100% with this. I bought a bucket full of citric acid (about 17 lbs. if my memory serves me right) and the cost was flat-out dirt cheap compared to Lemishine.
Citric acid speeds up the cleaning process substantially (especially when ultrasonic cleaning is employed) and it passivates the brass, minimizing further oxidation. It's a must-have IMO.
Century Limited
Member
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- Oct 5, 2011
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Thanks for the replies on the spotted brass. I was thinking only cosmetic issue, but wanted to be sure I do things safely. I will be sure to immediately rinse and dry brass next time. I am curious how it will come out of tumbler next time. It may be awhile as lots of family time coming up and may not get chance to run another cycle.
Has anyone loaded tumbler and let it sit for extended time before turning on? I have considered loading tumbler and either have start via timer a few hours before ready to rinse, or turn it on when I get up for late night/early morning bathroom run and complete process when I get up. I do not think I would want to let it tumble all night if I choose not to finish rinsing/drying late at night.
As for cost of Lemishine, I bought two 15 oz bonus size containers at Walmart with a coupon from a Sunday paper and feel it will last me years as a little goes a long way. Then again, I'm sure many of you shoot MUCH, MUCH more than me.
Happy and safe shooting to all.
Has anyone loaded tumbler and let it sit for extended time before turning on? I have considered loading tumbler and either have start via timer a few hours before ready to rinse, or turn it on when I get up for late night/early morning bathroom run and complete process when I get up. I do not think I would want to let it tumble all night if I choose not to finish rinsing/drying late at night.
As for cost of Lemishine, I bought two 15 oz bonus size containers at Walmart with a coupon from a Sunday paper and feel it will last me years as a little goes a long way. Then again, I'm sure many of you shoot MUCH, MUCH more than me.
Happy and safe shooting to all.
AV8TOR
Member
Adding some Armor All Wash and Wax has eliminate all blemishes for me. My last rinse is also taking a did in water that was boiled in the microwave. I found that with this heat the brass dries fast. I am not changing a thing because the brass comes out perfectly.
GBExpat
Member
I clean deprimed cases in a F.A.R.T. with hot-water, AAW&W and a bit of citric acid powder for 3 hours.
I (carefully!, because it is rather lightweight for such duty) use an RCBS Case/Media Separator in a bathtub to separate the pins from the brass, thoroughly hot-water rinse the brass and then spin the brass to remove as much water as possible.
I then bag & agitate them in a towel (twice) to remove more water and deposit them one-layer-deep in corrugated cardboard "flats" (low-wall, no-top box for catfood cans) and place those for a day in front of a running circulation fan in the basement.
My cases sport no water spots and are relatively tarnish-resistant.
FWIW.
I (carefully!, because it is rather lightweight for such duty) use an RCBS Case/Media Separator in a bathtub to separate the pins from the brass, thoroughly hot-water rinse the brass and then spin the brass to remove as much water as possible.
I then bag & agitate them in a towel (twice) to remove more water and deposit them one-layer-deep in corrugated cardboard "flats" (low-wall, no-top box for catfood cans) and place those for a day in front of a running circulation fan in the basement.
My cases sport no water spots and are relatively tarnish-resistant.
FWIW.
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