What 16ga load for home defense

[Zundfolge]

For some time we've had my wife's old Winchester 1200 16ga loaded up with #8 bird shot in the closet as a home defense weapon. I also have a .40 under the bed and was planning on retiring it and the shotgun when my AR15 comes in (should be any day now) but the wife is more comfortable with her old shottie, so I figured we'd stay with it.

Well we've had the gun loaded up in the closet since the Carr brothers thing happened (we lived in Wichita at the time). The wife insisted we pick it up from her folks house and we picked up the only 16ga. ammo that KMart had in stock at the time which was 2-3/4" Winchester #8 Upland Game Loads.

Is that good enough for home defense?

Would 00 shot out of a 16ga have enough energy to do any better?

Should I instead save some pennies and get her a nice 12ga?


This thread here got me wondering ... http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33322

 

[Preacherman]

There are good buckshot loads available from Winchester and Federal (you'll have to select "shotshell", then "16 gauge" and select "large, heavy game" from their Usage menu to see the Federal load - their Web site doesn't offer a direct URL to this product). Either of these should be an excellent defensive load. However, as mentioned in the other thread you referenced, at close range, I wouldn't hesitate to use the #8 shot you've already got loaded. How about a couple of rounds of the #8, followed by a couple of buckshot loads?

 

[ACP230]

I think eight shot might work. I've seen small shot from a 20 gauge go right through the side panel of a 1960s era derelict car at about 20 feet.

I used to figure on loading my 16 gauge Model 12 with number fives if I needed it for HD.

 

[Dave McCracken]

First, I've never seen 00 in a 16 gauge load. 1 buck, quite effective, is common.

And 20 gauges are quite effective, so that 16 will do the job if the shooter does his/hers. Your wife seems comfortable with it, a big advantage.

Best approach I know of is to measure, not guess,the longest possible shot opp in your domicile, add a yard for GPs, and pattern your ammo at that distance. If it's a fist sized group, you're set. If not, try another.

AR 15s inside will not leave you much hearing. Using a shotgun or most handguns will leave you some.

HTH...

 

[Morgan]

I'd use slugs.

 

[streakr]

The problem with slugs, 00 Buck or high brass birdshot is excess penetration. You want to take out the perp, not your neighbor three houses away. Use the lightest shotgun shell you can; it is still sufficient.

Aquila, an Itallian ammo manufacturer, makes a short (1.5") home defense load that will cycle in a pump gun ( I have tried it in a Model 97, Stevens 520 and Remington 870) and even better in a SxS coach gun. These are potent enough to knock down Cowboy Action targets but have less recoil but are available only in 12 gauge (as far a I know).

A shotgun or revolver loaded with frangible rounds is a far better choice inside the home than an AR-15. The rifle is too long and over-penetration becomes a significant worry. You also have to aim the AR-15, imagine doing this when you are tired and in the dark!

I once had to use my shotgun in home defense but when the perps (trying to force a side door) heard the bolt cycling (on an empty chamber) they bugged out !

A nice, barking dog of 50-80 pounds is the best warning system.

Just my opinion. I could be......
Streakr

 

[Morgan]

Streakr:

AR-15's (.223) penetrate LESS through walls, etc., than pistol or shotgun rounds.

I'd much rather have an exit wound than a shallow, non-incapacitating one. Too many are far too concerned with overpenetration, IMO.

Frangible rounds are crap. Expensive crap, at that.

You must still aim a shotgun, especially at home defense ranges.

 

[streakr]

Morgan:

I'd sure like to see your data on that. My .223 Bushmaster would penetrate 6 inches of waterlogged phone books at 50yds. That is sufficient energy to carry through several layers of sheetrock and siding. Brick or block would resist that but if the shot goes through windows, doors, etc the long range .223 could cause unintended havoc. It does make one hell of an exit wound however.

The legal implications are something to consider; a homeowner defends him/herself using such a firearm would infuriate the antis and in some communities may lead to indictment. A shotgun, especially one that is used for other sport shooting, would be less likely to attract

Cases to consider:

Last year a homeowner near Mobile Alabama killed a career thief after finding the thief cleaning out his shed and loading stuff into a truck. Using his bolt action 308 hunting rifle he shot the suspect three times (thru the truck cab) as the perp drove away. He died within minutes. Charges were filed against the homeowner who had been robbed three time before since he shot after the perp was leaving the scene. The charges were later dropped.

Two weeks ago another homeowner surprised a career thief (6 months out of prison with a long record) in his home. Using his shotgun, which the thief did not bother taking, he pursued and shot the perp outside the house in a getaway vehicle driven by an accomplice. The thief died in the car soon after. No charges were filed.

Even in a self-defense state such as Alabama, where you can defend your homestead, the type of firearm makes a difference. Both very similar cases but the DA did consider trying homeowner #1.

Overly powerful rounds used in close, tight quarters, in the dark by people in fear of their lives are, IMHO, too great a risk when effective alternatives are available.

Streakr

 

[Zundfolge]

streakr, Massad Ayoob wrote an interesting article that I read in American Handgunner about a year or so ago, and he did lots of tests and concluded that the AR-15 was the best home defense weapon because it wouldn't overpenetrate as much as a 12ga.

I've been searching on the net for the article, but haven't found it yet ... if I do I'll post it here.

As for legal considerations, I don't think the type of firearm used is the problem in any of those stories you posted.

Last year a homeowner near Mobile Alabama killed a career thief after finding the thief cleaning out his shed and loading stuff into a truck. Using his bolt action 308 hunting rifle he shot the suspect three times (thru the truck cab) as the perp drove away. He died within minutes. Charges were filed against the homeowner who had been robbed three time before since he shot after the perp was leaving the scene. The charges were later dropped.

Two weeks ago another homeowner surprised a career thief (6 months out of prison with a long record) in his home. Using his shotgun, which the thief did not bother taking, he pursued and shot the perp outside the house in a getaway vehicle driven by an accomplice. The thief died in the car soon after. No charges were filed.

In both cases the homeowner shot at thieves as they where leaving (and no longer a threat) and in both cases the homeowners where either not charged or the charges where dropped.

 

[RandyB]

Go with the #1 buckshot. I personally carry in my 12 Ga. BB for the 1st shot, the rest is #1 buck. (Side note my old man has a 16 and keeps #1 buck for it as well.)