~What 2 Rifles?~

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308sc

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Okay,

I have a problem here my dad is buying me and himself an AR-15 before the next election :) So I have done tons of research but it seems that every forum I visit I get new answers. He wants to spends about $1,000 give or take. So What two rifles should I recommend to him.

I hear Bushmaster/RRA/STAG is good, then I hear they are not good, I just am so confused about the whole thing. I know I want something accurate, I really don't care much about anything else, Its not like im going to be running through the jungle or desert, but I would like a little but of reliability.

I would like the one im getting suitable for Varminting, but I would also like it to have Iron sights for close range use. (if possible if not, no big deal)

I'm so excited to get and AR-15 of my own because usually my dad has a very hard time dropping $400 on a gun, not because we can't afford it but because he doesn't like to see his hard earned money go into the register.

So if you had roughly about $2,000 +/- to spend on 2 AR's what would they be?

This will be my last post about AR-15s....until the post when I posted the pictures of my newly acquired "Black Rifle"

Well thanks in advance, I trust the members on this forum alot more than any other I have visited so I really value your opinions.

Ryan (308sc)
 
2 AR's for a combined price of around $2,000 give or take,

2 of the same or different it doesn't matter, as long as one of the 2 is suitable for Varminting.
 
varmiting....colt h-bar in 1/7 twist. 68 or 75 grain ammo. the other to suit your fancy. 1 in 9 or 10 twist for cheap 55 gr plinking ammo. nice dad you got there.
any $ left over get a 22lr conversion (ciener's are good). and perhaps a colt 4x21 illuminated range finder optic
 
make your decisions based on this, some of the best infor ever compiled, as far as I am concerned; to the origional author , a laurel wreath to you sir.

Ever wonder why a Colt LE6920 sells for over $1k while an Olympic Plinker sells for under $600 on occasion? One reason is that there are dozens of places to change parts away from the specifications military contractors must provide to cheaper parts and practices that may not be necessary for commercial ARs. Not all of these changes are bad. Many of them will never be noticed by 99% of shooters; but some of them can effect function and I think it is important that a buyer understand what type of trade they are making when purchasing a rifle.

For an easy to follow shorthand, I've set up the following reference system (reflecting only my own opinions):
* Most likely will not make a difference for all but the most demanding shooters who put their rifles to hard use.
** Unlikely to make a difference for the vast majority of recreational shooters, may see occasional issues among those who train frequently.
*** Known to effect reliability for all users, though it may still not be an issue if you don't shoot that much.

1. Use cheap extruded or cast charging handle instead of proper forged charging handle.**
2. Cheap shot-filled or plastic buffer instead of correct military rifle or carbine buffer.***
3. 4140 barrel steel instead of 4150 MIL-B-11595.*
4. Don't proof test the barrel or bolt.*
5. No need for magnetic particle inspection of barrel or bolt.*
6. Don't test-fire the rifle prior to selling it.***
7. Replace heat-shielded handguard with lower grade plastic and no heat shield handguards.**
8. Use the same front sight base for every model instead of F-marked front sight base for flattops.*
9. Cast front sight base instead of forged.*
10. Cast upper and lower receivers.**
11. Plastic upper and lower receivers.**
12. Have a bunch of uppers that don't quite meet the Picatinny spec? We'll take them at a discount!**
13. Torquing and staking the gas key is something the customer can do.***
14. No chrome-lining.*
15. Why buy chrome-silicon springs designed for the weapon when we can use a cheaper steel and cut them to fit?***
16. That part is only a little out of spec. We can make it work with a little grinding and save money on parts too!***
17. Why use trained monkeys for assembly when regular monkeys work for half and can do the job almost as well?***
18. Make so many exceptions to your "lifetime warranty" that it will be impossible for anyone to ever make a valid claim against your "warranty."
19. Nobody will ever notice a few .001" difference on that part.**
20. Our patented spray-paint finish is much better than anodizing.**
21. Shipping every rifle with an HBAR profile to save machining costs, even if it is an entry rifle/"lightweight" carbine.*
22. Replace metal parts with plastic -plastic magazine release, trigger guard or delta ring.**
23. Use an Unmarked/mismarked A2 Elevation Adjustment Knob for the rear sight.**
24. Plastic A2 trapdoors in the butt of the rifle stock.**
25. Replace forged AR15 hammer with cast hammer.**
26. No drain hole in stock screw.**
27. Dremel cut feed ramps instead of feed ramps cut prior to anodizing.***
28. Use cheaper cast/extruded receiver extension instead of military extension (different diameter also).**
29. No parkerizing under the FSB.*
30. Straight pins or even roll pins instead of taper pins in FSB.***
31. Using A2 windage drums on detachable carry handles.**
32. Don't mark the barrel with chambering or twist rate.**
33. Don't stake the castle nut in place.**
34. Don't shot-peen the bolt during manufacturing.*

Note that there is often disagreement about how crucial some of these issues are and likely people will disagree with some of the arbitrary judgements I've made just to simplify it for those who don't want to read through a discussion on each of the 34 points. Also note that you can often learn more about any one of these subjects using a quick search in the rifle forum.

Thanks to the members of AR15.com who helped me flesh out and condense this list.

I am also looking for the comparison chart compiled by rob s. I have it as a desktop icon, but for the life of me, I cannot get it on here.
 
If you are thinking about home defense (great chance you will never use it for that) and plinking and varmet shooting, I don't see anything wrong with a Bushmaster AR15. I would get the flat top modle with a carry handle for the ability to have open sights and be able to put a scope on the gun. If you look around, you can probably find a gun and scope and scope mount for around $1k.

Many might argue that there are better rifles and they would be correct; but how good does it have to be for what you are going to use it for?? I doubt very much that it would fail to function with good ammo in the next 5,000 rounds. If you are getting rifles to avoid a possible ban after the next election, how much anarchy do you predict?

I believe that since Bushmaster is now owned under the Remington Arms umbrella, the quality will probably increase without a great increase in price.

Good luck with whatever you choose
 
Click on one of the links in my signature.

My advice is to buy LMT or Colt. CMMG and Smith & Wesson are also acceptable and will be a bit less expensive. If it were me, I'd buy two CMMG rifles and spend the left over money on Essential Arms stripped lowers ($79 each).

You can always build up or sell the stripped lowers.
 
Have a look at the Olympic Arms K16 or K8 if you're looking for a heavy barreled accurate shooter. I've seen these do quarter sized groups out to 300 yards.

I have a K16 ordered... just waiting for it to get here... :)
 
One of the great things abour AR's is that they are adaptable. Buy a lightweight 16" barrel with a telescoping butstock for self defense and later you can change out the butstock and add anothjer upper designed for precision shooting. For that matter you can even change to other calibers.
 
thanks for all the replies, I have seen the comparison graph. I goes something like

Colt
LMT
Noveske

ETC

based on the amount of "mil-spec" parts

is this the same chart im thinking you are talking about?
 
Hey 308sc :)

Your Thread said " So I have done tons of research - - - -

I don't own an AR-15, carried an M16 in Viet-Nam , but I've done lots of research on these newer models myself. And I'd have to go along with :cool: RonE on the Bushmaster. :D

The gun shows around here have been really pushing the Bushmaster. Last month prices were down to $798 , but that was last month.

Sage :D
 
Hey 308sc

Your Thread said " So I have done tons of research - - - -

I don't own an AR-15, carried an M16 in Viet-Nam ,

Sage
Click to expand...

Ain't it the truth?? I carried one in this war,Iraq 2004. And I own many weapons. But not an AR. And if I never fire one again in my whole life, I think I'll be totally cool with that. Not that it wasn't up to snuff, cause' it was. But just ZERO desire to handle/shoot/own one. Zero.
 
If I were you I would assemble my own.

Check out M&A Parts. You get a Wilson barrel machined/rifled by LMT, an upper receiver machined by LMT, an FN bolt, a LPK from the same folks who supply Colt, and you pay a fraction of the price of an assembled rifle. Add a Stag receiver and you can build a rifle for 600 or 700 dollars.
 
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RRA

I suggest RRA. My first was an RRA and my second was a DPMS. I guess the DPMS was fine, but it left a lot of wiggle room. The upper and the lower on the DPMS did not fight tight like my RRA does. Hence the rattle. Bushmaster has the same issue. Don't get me wrong, they are good rifles and they work, so for that reason alone I would not have suggested Rock River. The reason I suggest rock river is because they use the Wylde chamber which I have had better results from with my handloads. Also you can reliably shoot both .223 and 5.56 from the same rifle. If you get a 5.56 barrel then you can still shoot .223 but the tolerances are looser and you might not get the consistency that you want. I got my RRA flattop midlength for about $680. I have since put a $400 leupold on it and it shoots super tight groups even with the chrome lined barrel.

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