What about the .243 Win?

[Orcon]

So apparently the 243 is too small for elk, doesn't have enough ass in it to "git 'er done" but the comparable 25-06 and 257 roberts are plenty good for elk. Hmmm...seems inconsistent. My little brother shot a cow with a 243, nose on at about 100-120 yards, and we were picking out chunks of that 95gr NBT from the hind quarters as we were peeling the hide off in the garage. I've never found the cartridge to be lacking.

 

[BigBore44]

So apparently the 243 is too small for elk, doesn't have enough ass in it to "git 'er done" but the comparable 25-06 and 257 roberts are plenty good for elk. Hmmm...seems inconsistent. My little brother shot a cow with a 243, nose on at about 100-120 yards, and we were picking out chunks of that 95gr NBT from the hind quarters as we were peeling the hide off in the garage. I've never found the cartridge to be lacking.

But remember, that’s only anecdotal evidence. It doesn’t really mean anything.

 

[Gtscotty]

Yes it kills deer just fine, but it really should be used by some one who can keep them in the "boiler room"...

What's the best deer cartridge for folks that can't keep them in the boiler room?

 

[LoonWulf]

a good friend

 

[Varminterror]

So apparently the 243 is too small for elk, doesn't have enough ass in it to "git 'er done" but the comparable 25-06 and 257 roberts are plenty good for elk. Hmmm...seems inconsistent. My little brother shot a cow with a 243, nose on at about 100-120 yards, and we were picking out chunks of that 95gr NBT from the hind quarters as we were peeling the hide off in the garage. I've never found the cartridge to be lacking.

Why is that inconsistent? The Quarter Bores you mention, while also on the ragged edge of small for use on elk, are larger cases and run heavier bullets than the 243win. Both are more powerful. If you move upwards from "not powerful enough," you'll eventually cross into "just powerful enough."

 

[SamT1]

What's the best deer cartridge for folks that can't keep them in the boiler room?

It’s all about bullet selection. If your bad about gut shooting run a Hornady sst or nosler ballistic tip.
I shot a pig Thursday with my .308 at about 300 yards. I got out of the pickup and shot off my bipod on the ground. There was a little hill and all I could see was his back. I shot him anyway. Got a high gut shot. His intestines were outside of his body. And he was DRT. It was super weird. You won’t do that with a spire point.
If your shooting for meat it will ruin the back shoulder and maybe the front.
I shoot them because I make quite a few shots on pigs and coyote with them moving and that’s guarantees some gut shots and other placement issues.
Also it helps with tracking on animals that have fat to plug wounds. If you have a golf ball size hole fat can’t plug the blood.

 

[DM~]

What's the best deer cartridge for folks that can't keep them in the boiler room?

One that shoots tough enough "expanding" bullets, that will reach the boiler room at less than perfect shots...

DM

 

[SamT1]

Why is that inconsistent? The Quarter Bores you mention, while also on the ragged edge of small for use on elk, are larger cases and run heavier bullets than the 243win. Both are more powerful. If you move upwards from "not powerful enough," you'll eventually cross into "just powerful enough."

I think the issue with 243 on elk is that a lot of elk get shot at 200+ yards. 243 can’t carry that energy down range like a 25-06 would. If you bought a gun for elk specifically you’d buy a 7mm or bigger. 30-06 for old guys, 300 win mag for people that can handle the recoil. Bigger if you want!

 

[Gtscotty]

One that shoots tough enough "expanding" bullets, that will reach the boiler room at less than perfect shots...

DM

That assumes that the bullet's route is going to eventually take it through the boiler room, ill advised texas heart shots and the like. Most of the bad shots I've seen made on deer weren't going through the boiler room no matter how much they penetrated. Any reasonable cartridge the shooter could have used would have wound up the same way, a long tracking job.

 

[Orcon]

Why is that inconsistent? The Quarter Bores you mention, while also on the ragged edge of small for use on elk, are larger cases and run heavier bullets than the 243win. Both are more powerful. If you move upwards from "not powerful enough," you'll eventuall y cross into "just powerful enough."

They all push bullets of similar SD at similar velocities. Plus, there's a plethora of high bc 6mm bullets available so it seems like a wash. Only recently did those quarter bores become marginal for elk.

 

[SamT1]

That assumes that the bullet's route is going to eventually take it through the boiler room, ill advised texas heart shots and the like. Most of the bad shots I've seen made on deer weren't going through the boiler room no matter how much they penetrated. Any reasonable cartridge the shooter could have used would have wound up the same way, a long tracking job.

If you liquify the gut cavity with a ballistic tip that sucker won’t go far. You also better hope it’s a guided hunt and you have someone to clean that thing!

Also the Ballistic tips tend to get the spine if your very close at all.

 

[DM~]

That assumes that the bullet's route is going to eventually take it through the boiler room, ill advised texas heart shots and the like. Most of the bad shots I've seen made on deer weren't going through the boiler room no matter how much they penetrated. Any reasonable cartridge the shooter could have used would have wound up the same way, a long tracking job.

Well, that's YOUR experience, but it doesn't necessarily line up with mine...

DM

 

[Varminterror]

They all push bullets of similar SD at similar velocities. Plus, there's a plethora of high bc 6mm bullets available so it seems like a wash. Only recently did those quarter bores become marginal for elk.

If only elk and deer could read reloading manuals...

I've been killing game with 243win since for over 20yrs, picked up a 25-06 in 1999, and built my "Bob" in 2005. Most folks would recognize me as a "numbers guy," but in the case of the 6mm's vs. the quarter bores, the numbers don't paint the whole picture. There's a sizable gap in killing performance between the 3 we're discussing.

I think the issue with 243 on elk is that a lot of elk get shot at 200+ yards. 243 can’t carry that energy down range like a 25-06 would. If you bought a gun for elk specifically you’d buy a 7mm or bigger. 30-06 for old guys, 300 win mag for people that can handle the recoil. Bigger if you want!

Yup! My point, exactly.

 

[Varminterror]

What's the best deer cartridge for folks that can't keep them in the boiler room?

Buying meat at the grocery store.

 

[Stevenvalleyky]

So apparently the 243 is too small for elk, doesn't have enough ass in it to "git 'er done" but the comparable 25-06 and 257 roberts are plenty good for elk. Hmmm...seems inconsistent. My little brother shot a cow with a 243, nose on at about 100-120 yards, and we were picking out chunks of that 95gr NBT from the hind quarters as we were peeling the hide off in the garage. I've never found the cartridge to be lacking.

I know this was for several people but since I'm the one that said I want something with more ass for elk, I will respond.
When I said the 243 didn' have enough weight for elk, I proceeded that with people that are shooting big game at 400 yards or more, and IF they do, then they need to use something that has enough mass to get the job done.
While I'm sure a 243 will kill an elk dead quickly, thats unlikely at those kind of ranges since the power left at that range is minimal for whitetails, let alone something heavier like an elk. I personally wouldn't want less than a 30-06 at that kind of range and would prefer bigger. But everyone is different.

 

[BigBore44]

a good friend

If I could like that post 10 times, I would. I’m usually that “good friend”.

 

[cdb1]

Buying meat at the grocery store.

Yep. If people can’t shoot well enough to keep it in the boiler room then I don’t believe they should be hunting.

 

[LoonWulf]

Yep. If people can’t shoot well enough to keep it in the boiler room then I don’t believe they should be hunting.

what if they make REALY good dogs?


Buddy of mine is a horrible shot (he knows it too and only shoots if something very close and very dumb), but hes very good at spooking game to one of the rest of us.

case in point, he pushed a herd of sheep to me the last time we hunted them. I shot 5 of them on the run between 175-200yds with a .243....the things you dont remember until you do.
Ive done some of my best shooting with the .243 and some of my worst, its the only rifle i lost a deer with in the last 15 years or so.
And again a borrowed .243 dropped the largest buck ive shot in the last 7 or 8.

 

[CraigC]

So apparently the 243 is too small for elk, doesn't have enough ass in it to "git 'er done" but the comparable 25-06 and 257 roberts are plenty good for elk. Hmmm...seems inconsistent. My little brother shot a cow with a 243, nose on at about 100-120 yards, and we were picking out chunks of that 95gr NBT from the hind quarters as we were peeling the hide off in the garage. I've never found the cartridge to be lacking.

I wouldn't hunt elk with a quarter bore either. IMHO, minimum would be a 6.5 with heavier bullets, higher SD than possible with .243's and .25's.

And I'd never hunt anything bigger than coyotes with ballistic tip type bullets. Some folks apparently are satisfied with a few inches of penetration and complete disintegration on a perfect broadside shot. I'm not. I'll take a smaller wound channel with a bullet that holds itself together, penetrates from imperfect angles and preferably exits. I had the 225gr SST out of a .338 penetrate only 11" and completely disintegrate in SIMTEST. What would it do if it encountered bones? That 'should' be a good weight for elk but I think I'll opt for the Barnes or Partition.

 

[Stevenvalleyky]

I wouldn't hunt elk with a quarter bore either. IMHO, minimum would be a 6.5 with heavier bullets, higher SD than possible with .243's and .25's.

And I'd never hunt anything bigger than coyotes with ballistic tip type bullets. Some folks apparently are satisfied with a few inches of penetration and complete disintegration on a perfect broadside shot. I'm not. I'll take a smaller wound channel with a bullet that holds itself together, penetrates from imperfect angles and preferably exits. I had the 225gr SST out of a .338 penetrate only 11" and completely disintegrate in SIMTEST. What would it do if it encountered bones? That 'should' be a good weight for elk but I think I'll opt for the Barnes or Partition.

A few years ago I would have agreed completely, but that was apparently before the Nosler ballistic tip redesign. Back in the day, the ballistic tips should not have been used on deer since that were essentially a very explosive varmint bullet. And the lightweight ballistic tips still are that way. However, the heavier BTs now have much thicker tapering jackets that penetrate much better than before and rival some of the toughest cup and core made these days. An example would be any Nosler ballistic tip for 243 over 90 grains. They would be the be the heavier jacketed BTs while the lighter rounds are still the more explosive varmint ballistic tips. So they make ballistic tips that are varmint and deer appropriate for several different calibers. Just something to consider as I will no longer automatically discount using a ballistic tip on deer as I used to.

 

[SamT1]

I wouldn't hunt elk with a quarter bore either. IMHO, minimum would be a 6.5 with heavier bullets, higher SD than possible with .243's and .25's.

And I'd never hunt anything bigger than coyotes with ballistic tip type bullets. Some folks apparently are satisfied with a few inches of penetration and complete disintegration on a perfect broadside shot. I'm not. I'll take a smaller wound channel with a bullet that holds itself together, penetrates from imperfect angles and preferably exits. I had the 225gr SST out of a .338 penetrate only 11" and completely disintegrate in SIMTEST. What would it do if it encountered bones? That 'should' be a good weight for elk but I think I'll opt for the Barnes or Partition.

Yup the sst bullets are for deer, pig, antelope sized game. Not a good elk bullet, I doubt they even recommend them for that surely not.
I’d agree with the Barnes for elk 100%! I got on a kick of loading them at max velocity in 7mag and .270 and they were horrible deer bullets. Place them perfect and the deer would run 100 yards or more. But no meat loss, almost like shooting a Fmj that becomes twice the diameter when it hits. I can see them being super on elk and stuff that size.


For deer The sst drops them great, but ruins meat.
The regular Hornady spire points are good middle ground for deer.

 

[SamT1]

A few years ago I would have agreed completely, but that was apparently before the Nosler ballistic tip redesign. Back in the day, the ballistic tips should not have been used on deer since that were essentially a very explosive varmint bullet. And the lightweight ballistic tips still are that way. However, the heavier BTs now have much thicker tapering jackets that penetrate much better than before and rival some of the toughest cup and core made these days. An example would be any Nosler ballistic tip for 243 over 90 grains. They would be the be the heavier jacketed BTs while the lighter rounds are still the more explosive varmint ballistic tips. So they make ballistic tips that are varmint and deer appropriate for several different calibers. Just something to consider as I will no longer automatically discount using a ballistic tip on deer as I used to.

Yea the heavy nosler Bt and the Hornady sst are designed to blow the front half off and retain the back for penetration. I don’t think I can tell the pigs that I shoot with either. The nosler just looses out on price. I have a bunch from buying during shortage times though.

 

[CraigC]

Yup the sst bullets are for deer, pig, antelope sized game. Not a good elk bullet, I doubt they even recommend them for that surely not.

You think a 225gr .338 is intended for deer???

 

[SamT1]

You think a 225gr .338 is intended for deer???

Craig everyone is an idiot compared to you I officially bow out.

 

[BigBore44]

You think a 225gr .338 is intended for deer???

I suppose that would depend on the gun’s owner. The owner of the 338WM with 225gr bullets that took this buck certainly intended it to be used on a deer. So I would say.....yes.

My 350gr Hornady RN in my 45-70 is my deer load.