What about this?

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DENALI

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:what: Hey all, thought I'd share the absolute worst gun buying experience I've ever had, and in the process I'm looking for input as to what could happen here.
I purchased a S&W M&P compact in 9mm from St. Croix Outpost in Hudson WI on tuesday and went in there to pick it up just this afternoon. Bad idea! The clerk, a women of about 40 was not in a very good mood, and this escalated as the finalization of the paperwork proceeded.
I mentioned to her and apparently her boss(the owner?)that this wasn't exactly the pistol I'd been expecting as it came equipped with all of the California/Mass bells and whistle's, these observations were met with a palpable animosity. None the less, we went ahead and I took my new pistol out to my truck.
Before departing for home I took a much closer look at the whole package and then fully realised that it was indeed the wrong pistol, the one I had ordered was to come with the 12-round mags, this one had two 10-rounders.
Upon reentering the store and presenting my dilemma, I was met with a puzzling level of animosity, indeed the owner(?) told me well thats the way they come because of the brady law and ordered the clerk to just give me my money back. Now I had just waited three days and driven 80-miles at 3.09 a gallon and I thought that was a little knee-jerk to just blow me and all my time and effort off that quickly(wouldn't you?). So I tried to salvage the situation as best I could, or at least encourage them to at the least put in some effort on my behalf and contact the distributor and see if they would make it right with the mags, and that if they would I'd still buy the pistol even though it was not as I had ordered it. I promise you, my fellow members of THR what follows is the truth as best I can recollect.
The "more than a little bitchy clerk" left me standing in the showroom area for about 25-minutes without so much as an invitation to wait, let alone an explanation as to what she was doing. Eventually I tracked her to the other side of the establishment and after a brief attempt at motivating her to call the distributor(I told her maybe it's not your fault)she went berserk and threatened to have me phyisically hurt and that she was not one to be confronted ect..ect..ect.. There was actually another man looking at some of the motorcycles(they sell them and power equipment to)so I felt somewhat comfortable in ramping it up a notch after such an unexpected verbal assault and I demanded my money back in full! Keep in mind, I had never once even asked about getting my money back, they had. It was all so surreal, unbelieveable levels of animosity directed at me the customer, really just something else. She threatened me some more and I quite appropriatlely demanded my money back for what had now become the gun transaction from hell. Then this curious specimen of womanhood picked up the phone and actually called the St.Croix County SO, further the owner and a grease monkey from the back had now inserted themselves into the fray and began tag teaming me with verbal jabs ect..ect..ect..
Long and short of it? The DSO's arrived and seperated all concerned and incredibly everyone filled out on paper there version of events. Then I was finally given my money back. Curious, I asked the first DSO what the hell he thought would come of it all, he replied it was up to the county attorneys office to prefer charges if at all...................
Aside from the most unpleasent shopping experience ever, what do you guy's and gal's think of it all. Am I at risk at all from this bizzare, surreal gunshop encounter? Oh yeah, after it all cleared up, I went down the road to my regular gunshop and told the whole thing to my regular guy and filled out the new paperwork and all, he told me there actually going out of business and in fact he wouldn't accept the check that St Croix Outpost had remitted me because he didn't know if it would clear.:banghead:
I can't be at risk here can I? Anyway what do you think? Can I actually be charged for demanding my money back after being so visciously treated, could this actually stop my new nics check for some reason?
 
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IANAL, but I can't see where you would be at any risk from this transaction from hell.
There should be no problem at all with the NICS check.You have a clean record and have been charged with nothing.
After a few days it'll fade away like a bad dream.
Perhaps you should notify the S&W distributor about your experience at this nightmarish establishment.
 
+1, Winchester.

Send S&W a copy of the police report, too. Let them know that as authorized dealers, they are making Smith and Wesson look like a horrible company.

-Sans Authoritas
 
If the check doesn't clear press charges against them. Last time I checked writing a hot check is still illegal.---Kinda like stealing which I believe is also illegal. I would also not do business with these folks again.
 
get that check to the bank it's drawn against PRONTO.
Click to expand...
+1000.

Based on your representation of the events, I'd guess that they knew that they had given you the wrong pistol, and were trying to intimidate you into taking it to make nice. Best thing you can do is cash the check at the bank it's drawn against, and hope it doesn't bounce. Why did they give you a check? Seems to me that if you paid with a check, they could just return it, CC can be reversed, and cash can be returned.
 
imo, i see no reason to bring charges against you, sounds like a civil matter, if their check bounces. if you were threatening, disorderly, profane, or tresspassing the dep would have hooked you up. you got your money back - end of transaction- cash the check pronto-no wonder their going out of business. keep us posted
 
Good thing she called the deputies. If Law Enforcement hadn't shown and collected reports, you may not have a leg to stand on in court if you need to go that route.
Also, they may have decided to continue escalating the conflict and it could have gotten physical.
With you lying on the floor full of double ought and low on blood, they'd have made the report they wanted. You were a whack job who went crazy.

People have been killed or at least beaten savagely for less. With the two guys interjecting themselves into the situation, I believe it might have gone that way.

Cash their check and move on.
 
I suppose they could try to Nifong you with an armed robbery charge (man in store holding a gun and demanding money). There's always the ubiquitous "disturbing the peace" charge, but even that would probably get laughed out of court.

P.S. Instead of ramping it up, you probably just should have refused to accept the gun, and then sue for recission of the contract. Small claims court is your friend.
 
:eek: Thanks to everbody who's responded, but here's additional bad news, I went in to Grergersons today(monday) after refiling my WI paperwork for the purchase of an handgun and for the first time in my life I've been hit up with a thing called a three-day extension where of couse I cannot complete purchase on the pistol. Remember, this past friday when all this BS occurred, I was approved, and the new paperwork was filed later that same day.:fire:
I have not been arrested or charged with any crime(not that I even remotely committed one)and yet I now find myself at the apparent mercy of the system. This is the way I see it, the state has obviously been notified, and they instigated this three-day hold so the county would have time to file charges if they want to. Be careful if you shop and do business in western WI, you're apparently at the mercy of the shop owners and if you catch one on the wrong day it would seem you have no right to defend yourself from there aggressive verbal assaults...If you live over there remember the name of the place:St Croix Outpost, and avoid them.............................
 
Under WI law, you have to wait three days to pick up after purchasing a handgun. Could this be what you got hit with?
 
nope - that's not normal in Wisconsin. but your experience is why I've never gone back there after my first visit. I was insulted by some 20yo pinhead behind the counter when I asked a question about their layaway policies...

they stink and there's much better shops around...
 
No, I've been waiting since last Tuesday(2/5/08). And actually My 2-day wait was up on sunday afternoon, with today(monday) actually being the start of the fourth day since refiling the paperwork on Friday. Further I talked to my Attorney, and my sherrif in Burnett Co and both are at a loss for an explanation. Indeed the Sherrif of my county thinks that because I was approved on the one purchase, and then filled out new paperwork on the same model pistol that this is in some way setting off an red flag to whomever runs the state system. It's not very comforting to hear that "I've never heard of that before" from the top LEO of Burnett Co.................

P.S. My Attorney said I was completely within my rights to refuse to leave before having my money returned in full, and that I was not listed anywhere on the court dockets(charged).
 
Very disturbing.
As pointed out ,another reason the NICS is a disaster and must go.
The Founders really had it right with "shall not be infringed."
Best of luck to you and this incident is resolved in your favor.
 
;) Resolved, I talked with the state and they waved their extension and I
now have my new pistol in hand. It certainly didn't hurt talking to my Attorney and dropping his name. I hope it's in keeping with the THR way, to once again warn anybody from this neck of the woods to stay away from this outfit(St Croix Outpost). Their going out of the gun business but for my part, I'd not expect them to be any more reputable selling you a $15,000 motorcycle or ATV. Their sign is right alongside interstate 94 just east of Hudson WI. Thanks for your input.....:D
 
In the future if ever this happens..Go to the bank and cash the check go to the bank and cash the check do not pass go, do not delay go to the bank and cash the check!

As to NICs, no way.. There is nothing this so called shop can do that Nics will know or care about unless you are convicted of something and to be convicted you have to be arrested and then got thru hearings to see if even any charges are valid, and if there are charges oh about 6 months from now you might be in court..

Unless you punched the store emploee's or pulled some wild stunt you failed to mention you didn't do anything illegal. Since you are not under arrest I doubt you will be under arrest.

Nics only takes into account convictions and no hearsay.

I can see why that place is going under easy, if only 1/2 of what you say is true.
 
You are correct, my Attorney said as much to me this afternoon. As a regular citizen I'm not up on what could and could not be as it pertains to the nics thingy. You wouldn't believe how terrible these folks were, when I mentioned to them both that the pistol was not as ordered, the first words from this guy's lips was "give him his money back", no attempt whatsoever at making it right, not to mention polite! You could just as easily puked on his counter then just having plopped down $600.00 for the way he reacted to it!
I went out of my way in trying to salvage the transaction and was treated like a dog with the mange! There's always two-sides to every story, thats the way I've always conducted myself, not this time as these two were clearly looking to ruin someones day.
 
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I worked on the other side of the counter in a gun shop here in NH. So I have a fair idea what the NICS is about. So I knew there was nothing the dealer could do to you.

On another note I once had problems renting with a land lord, and when I was given a check as security back it was far less than it should have been.

In order to get the rest of the money I had to take him to court. Trying to do what I thought was right, I never cashed that check, and had it with me in court. The judge asked why I hadn't cashed the check, and I told him that I didn't want anyway to have it said i settled for the amount written on it.

The judge told me to cash any such checks in the future and present a bank certified copy in any other events, should they ever occur.

The best thing for you know, I don't need to say, but i will. Avoid that place !

A little more advice. If you find that this instance does have effect on future purchases, you can fill out a wavier in your state. This waiver allows your state to by pass other poor transactions, and will get instant NICS checks passed in a breeze, so long as you remain a memeber of society in good faith, commiting no new sins, of which you are CONVICTED.

What this means is your records will not be thrown away in a certain amount of time by law anymore.

I did this very thing myself because I once lived in Mass, where I bought guns, and Fla where I also bought guns, plus NH where I live now.

Mass would toss screws in the works on occasions, and not do the Nics check because they didn't feel like doing the NICS checks.. This results in a wait, and when the check is done IF in time you get the gun, and if the check is never done you get the gun, but to avoid any and all wait with that waiver. Your state gets just looks at the state you reside in for the NICS check, and so only your state cares about the NICS check which tends to speed things up from days to a few minutes.

I know that is rough reading so read it twice...

What NICS gets in case you are interested is, Your name and address with a street address. You age, place of birth and if you are a resident of that state, and where you were born. If you are a natual born citizen of the USA, and the rest of the crap in all the questions.

To avoid confusion putting your Social Security number will prevent you being confused with another with a similar name. (if that applies)

As to the gun, NICS does not know what make and model and or serial number the gun is. What they do know is if it is a "long gun", "hand gun "(revlover), and or "pistol" (semi auto).

The one who does have the details are the FFL dealer, right there in his books, which he turns over to the feds on any demand the feds make and or when he goes out of the business. His books have when the gun came in, from whom and then when it was sold and to whom, and that info stays in that shop, untill the shop goes under, of the dealer by law is forced to turn over his books for some audit.

many people believe the NICS gets every last detail when they don't.

many people who get a denie, want the FFL dealer to tell them why. He can't.

He isn't told why and if he asked would not be told why.

When a FFL talks to a human at NICS it is almost like talking to a dial up robot. There is no Hi how are you today, unless maybe he has dealt with the same people over a veru long time.

There is no in general chat like people do. When you spell names it is in military lingo Alfa, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, sixer, niner, like that.

There are 2 phone number the FFL uses depending on what you buy.

If you buy a long gun it goes fedral.

If you buy a hand gun/pistol it goes state, and if you buy one of each it goes state.

If you get denied by NICS there, usually it means there is a delay in another state. If the delay is because you are aa felon I have no idea what happens..

No felons I would know of can pass NICS, and I don't believe I eve sold any gun to any felons ever.

NICS won't tell the FFL they have a felon in the store either, so he just gets a denie, and goes away or maybe all hell breaks loose????

I did have a wacko one time. He wanted a revolver and one bullet. I didn;'t like that idea about just one bullet, that isn't common, and so I lied and told the customer the gun had just been sold, and I han't had time to put a tag on it saying so.

When he left I called the cops and they investigated, and it turned out by the grape vine in a small town the guy was planning to take himself out.

I would reccomend if you want a gun to take yerself out to just go ahead and buy the whole box of bullets.... There is no sence in saving cash on hand when you intend to blow yer brains out.. St Pete don't count no coin..
 
Hey all, thought I'd share the absolute worst gun buying experience I've ever had, and in the process I'm looking for input as to what could happen here.
I purchased a S&W M&P compact in 9mm from St. Croix Outpost in Hudson WI on tuesday and went in there to pick it up just this afternoon. Bad idea! The clerk, a women of about 40 was not in a very good mood, and this escalated as the finalization of the paperwork proceeded.
I mentioned to her and apparently her boss(the owner?)that this wasn't exactly the pistol I'd been expecting as it came equipped with all of the California/Mass bells and whistle's, these observations were met with a palpable animosity. None the less, we went ahead and I took my new pistol out to my truck.
Before departing for home I took a much closer look at the whole package and then fully realised that it was indeed the wrong pistol, the one I had ordered was to come with the 12-round mags, this one had two 10-rounders.
Upon reentering the store and presenting my dilemma, I was met with a puzzling level of animosity, indeed the owner(?) told me well thats the way they come because of the brady law and ordered the clerk to just give me my money back. Now I had just waited three days and driven 80-miles at 3.09 a gallon and I thought that was a little knee-jerk to just blow me and all my time and effort off that quickly(wouldn't you?). So I tried to salvage the situation as best I could, or at least encourage them to at the least put in some effort on my behalf and contact the distributor and see if they would make it right with the mags, and that if they would I'd still buy the pistol even though it was not as I had ordered it. I promise you, my fellow members of THR what follows is the truth as best I can recollect.
The "more than a little bitchy clerk" left me standing in the showroom area for about 25-minutes without so much as an invitation to wait, let alone an explanation as to what she was doing. Eventually I tracked her to the other side of the establishment and after a brief attempt at motivating her to call the distributor(I told her maybe it's not your fault)she went berserk and threatened to have me phyisically hurt and that she was not one to be confronted ect..ect..ect.. There was actually another man looking at some of the motorcycles(they sell them and power equipment to)so I felt somewhat comfortable in ramping it up a notch after such an unexpected verbal assault and I demanded my money back in full! Keep in mind, I had never once even asked about getting my money back, they had. It was all so surreal, unbelieveable levels of animosity directed at me the customer, really just something else. She threatened me some more and I quite appropriatlely demanded my money back for what had now become the gun transaction from hell. Then this curious specimen of womanhood picked up the phone and actually called the St.Croix County SO, further the owner and a grease monkey from the back had now inserted themselves into the fray and began tag teaming me with verbal jabs ect..ect..ect..
Long and short of it? The DSO's arrived and seperated all concerned and incredibly everyone filled out on paper there version of events. Then I was finally given my money back. Curious, I asked the first DSO what the hell he thought would come of it all, he replied it was up to the county attorneys office to prefer charges if at all...................
Aside from the most unpleasent shopping experience ever, what do you guy's and gal's think of it all. Am I at risk at all from this bizzare, surreal gunshop encounter? Oh yeah, after it all cleared up, I went down the road to my regular gunshop and told the whole thing to my regular guy and filled out the new paperwork and all, he told me there actually going out of business and in fact he wouldn't accept the check that St Croix Outpost had remitted me because he didn't know if it would clear.
I can't be at risk here can I? Anyway what do you think? Can I actually be charged for demanding my money back after being so visciously treated, could this actually stop my new nics check for some reason?
Click to expand...

Have charges been filed?
 
Hey Macmac thanks for your obviously advanced knowledge on the topic of the nics system. In the state of WI it's entirely possible to be approved by the Feds before the state ante's up with their end of the check. This I've only recently learned of from my Attorney. Indeed, in WI, you can have an encounter such as mine and have it stall your firearm purchase process.
The lesson here is caution, deal cautiously with people you have little or no experience with. I've been buying, selling and trading firearms for 30-years and can honestly say I've never had an even remotely similar experience, and that includes several good disputes with dealers over this and that.
In this instance, the owner(?) didn't have the slightest concern with his employee verbally assaulting a cash paying customer. I'll be sure to lend my expertise to his advertising budget, at no charge!
 
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