What bolt gun for a long distange gun (700 yd)?

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Roadwild17

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If you're trying to get into long-distance target work without spending 4K, there are quite a few recommendations for the Savage FT/R

http://www.savagearms.com/12FTR.htm

This is a very accurate rifle, out of the box. All you need to do is put a $800 scope on it and you're into long-range for 2K instead of 4K.
 
I used a Remington 700 Varminter in 308 as a duty rifle for a while. They are accurate and are easy to accessorize. I would go that route, I now use a Remington 700 LTR with the 20" barrel instead, shorter and lighter. The LTR would also serve your needs very well.
 
yep go with the 700 sps in tactical or varmint and you should be able to drop your build cost down to around $850 or so.
 
This depends on how accurate you want it to be, and how much you're willing to spend and screw with it. I mean, frankly, if you're looking for 0.5-1 MOA accuracy, I'd say buy a PSL, rescope it, get the 7N1 ammo, and be done with it. That's the easy way to get a gun that's accurate to those ranges. The harder way is to build a boltgun and make all sorts of modifications to it, although you'll ultimately end up with a more accurate rifle.
 
CDNN still has the FN bolt guns in .308 starting at $600.

ETA: A PSL won't be < 1 moa with probably anything, let alone surplus. The FN, or any American bolt gun will shoot circles around it.
 
Speaking realistically here, and assuming I can do my part, I want to be able to take deer (and similar sized game) up to 750 yds. This is my first foray into anything over 100 yds or so. I know .308 is good for this range, there is a crap load of info in this round, can I can maby get some high quality surplus to make the learning curve a little cheaper.

What is a PSL??

I know salvage has problem with the stock, should one be ordered with something other than the standard stock?
Also the 12 ft/r would eat to much of my budget, actually, almost all of the budget.
 
Taking deer at 700 yards is not a reasonable thing to do. If you are superbly gifted at reading wind, use a very accurate slope indicating laser rangefinder, have a 1/2 moa rifle (with you shooting it), then maybe. But there is an extremely limited number of people on the planet capable of making this shot 95% of the time. You're really talking about the top 1% of shooters in the world that could do this on a regular basis.

Try putting up an 8"x8" (kill zone on a deer) target at 600 - 700 yards, when you can make 100% hits on that, from a field position in all conditions, then you might be ready to try it.

But n to the question about guns. My Savage 12 FV ($499 at Gander Mt.) in .243 is capable of maintaining 1/2 MOA at 300 yards all the time, and 600 yards in reasonably calm conditions. If I had the same gun in .308 or '06 then I would take shots at deer at 300 yards. And that was with the standard stock, I've upgraded to a heavy laminate to get the weight up, not because the original didn't work.

Unfortunately after 45 years of reasonable serious shooting (I started shooting Junior NRA when I was 8) I still can't read wind that well and would be very hesitant to take shots past that.

Savage has the same problem with their stock that any inexpensive rifle has, it's flexible at the fore end, same thing with the Winchester and Remmy rifles. If you want a more rigid stock in any of them you have to move up a grade.
 
Well I know I wont be taking deer past 200 yds for a while, Im not a shoot them up kinda of hunter, I doubt I would take a shot past 2-300 yds I know I cant but I would rather the rifle be able to out shoot me. Lets just say as far as deer go, I dont want to lug around a 17 lb rifle.

The remmy VTR has an upgraded stock already, but I could say I would upgrade the stock, if I give on getting a "cheaper" version on the rifle. Anyway, the rifle/stock would have to run about 800.

Im budgeting $4-600 for scope, rings, base, and bipod & $800 for rifle/stock.
 
Taking deer at 750 yards is not a reasonable thing to do. If you are superbly gifted at reading wind, use a very accurate slope indicating laser rangefinder, have a 1/2 moa rifle (with you shooting it), [you have an extremely sturdy field rest], then maybe [shooting a deer at 450 yards is reasonable].

There, fixed it for ya browningguy. :p :)
 
What is a PSL??

The PSL is basically the Romanian equivalent to the Dragunov rifle. Same accuracy, but uses an AK action. Not a boltgun, but can be had fairly cheaply and is quite accurate. Most of the poor reputation these guns get comes from kits made from unmatching parts or poor ammo not designed for precision. New factory versions are much better. I personally know someone who's shooting 1-inch groups at 200 yards with their PSL, and snipers armed with them say they can reliably hit man-sized targets out to 600 meters with one shot, and 800 for slightly larger things. Not too shabby considering the whole setup, optics and all, is under $1000.
 
I'm not questioning any particular PSL's accuracy but speaking of the platform as a whole and the targets I've seen, the talk I've heard, and the reports I've read most are not as accurate on a whole as many of the out of the box bolt guns. I would look at savage 110FP or 10FP or one of the remington 700s (sps LRT etc) these rifles provide very good accuracy, many serious reports I've seen have targets showing sub MOA accuracy. These rifles sell for less money than what a quick search of Gunbroker showed PSLs going for. Add a good scope to a Rem or Savage and the main limitation at long distances is likely to be the shooter.

Further to get a good Rem or Savage one needs to simply go to their dealer and buy one with full expectation of high quality, this requires no need to educate one's self as to how to spot kit builds and see if one is of poor quality are not. Buying a PSL is a different story.

Here are some user reviews concerning the PSL


The PSL is probably like the Saiga .308 some people report getting MOA and probably are but most report 2-3 MOA. PSLs and "Saiganov" builds are fun guns and some get very good accuracy but a bolt gun is the way to go for a true "sniper rifle" or long range paper puncher IMO. I would also prefer .308 for a hunting rifle because of the much wider availability of high quality ammo and ammo components.

It should also be said that the PLS isn't really anything like the dragnov save for its looks, caliber and perhaps the concept of its role (although even that could be debated). The PSL has different internals and different operating systems. They are totally different riffles.

+1 for not shooting deer at 700 yds plus. As others have said shooting at longer ranges requires new skills and more skill than shooting at 700 yds. It is not simply a matter of buying an accurate riffle and then extending the range. There are many guns that could theoretically make that shot, many fewer shooters.
 
Im really surprised no one picked up on the (or similar sized game). Around here, there isnt anything longer than a 400 yd clear field of view.

The Sendero isnt offered in .308.
 
Quite a few guys "in the know", when going for a budget build like this in .308, will take a Stevens 200, replace trigger with a Timney or similar; replace stock with McMillan or other good one, and put on quality 20 MOA base, rings, and scope, and you're off to the races.
 
For target shooting beyond 500 yards, I'd go with 300 win mag, thats what the Army marksmanship team uses.
 
rem 700 with a good scope ($800) and you are good to go. perhaps $150 for a trigger--perhaps not.
as for deer at 700 yards--even if you hit you will starve. by the time you trek the valley & forge the creek and clime to it
something else will have ate it or dragged it off.
my 1000 yard rem--i still would not hunt past 225-250 yards. if your first shot at 700 wounds than likely you are not in a position for a follow up shot and you are not being a responsible hunter. hunt close or perhaps at whole foods. mrs there are ok
 
If you have to walk 700 yards to your food, it should be because there wasn't a closer place to park at Sam's Club.
 
I asked the exact same question of my way up there supervisors supervisor at work. He claims to have been an Army sniper. He response left me grinning, but educated at the same time.

He said if you want to do it on the cheap, the Savage 110 FP would do the job nicely. You can probably get the gun for about 500 dollars and then you would have to get a good scope. Anything 12X or better at max resolution would work. He said because the ballistic tables are so easily gotten, he would recommend .308, but out to 1k yards, the .338 lapua held the records for tightest groups. He told me to practice at 100y, and when I could consistently get .5 moa groups at will, then I would have the craft to shoot the longer distances. He recommended the 110 FP because it came with the bull barrel.

With that said, I have started collecting .308 brass and ammo in prep for my next purchase. I grinned, because having shot 400y before (and I very rarely missed my target at 300 or 400 using my saw or m16) I know there is more to shooting 400y then there is at 100y. I have watched the wind take my tracers from left of the target to right (I thought I had adjusted enough). Next two round burst got it, but it still left me confused. Wind and at longer distances (say 700y +) curvature of the earth become real considerations. Wind is a bust at 100y with that type velocities. Even the Army is supposed to shut down ranges if there is sustained 10 + mph winds (note I said supposed) because it can make your rounds completely miss at 200y (which is just moving it 6 inches from center to left or right of the target).

The scout sniper I used to work with (I am a contractor for DoD, most of us are former military, myself included) also recommended .308. He has volunteered to teach me to shoot out to 1k, if I can ever get a rifle and range that will do. He personally uses an accuracy international, but that was 1k plus the 1.2k for his mark IV scope.
 
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Of all the Remingtons, the VTR would be my last choice. Unless a triangle barrel suddenly wins an F Class or benchrest match tomorrow. I like Savages a lot, and you can always install your own match barrel. The odds of getting a PSL that will shoot MOA at 700 yards is about a billion to one. One of the writers for Shotgun News spent a ton on a PSL, and didn't get it to MOA.

For target shooting beyond 500 yards, I'd go with 300 win mag, thats what the Army marksmanship team uses.

Been a long time since a 300 winmag won a major comp.
 
Get the Savage and spend the rest of what you have on at least a 15 MOA scope base and some badger rings, and some good glass. I would spring for the Leupold Mark4 LR\T with M3 knobs. if you are really wanting to shoot long distance, or shoot at varying unknown distance the 1moa elevation knobs offer fast come up\down.
 
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Another vote for the Savage, my 10FP in .308 was a 1/2 MOA rifle out of the box after I found the right ammo. I don't think that all savages are that good but I hear about good ones often.
 
To do this as cheaply as possible go with the remington BDL. The model 700 is the most upgradeable gun there is. The action is solid, the stock is crap but it will get you started. Look at HS precision for a good stock it drops right in. Mcmillians are awsome but I believe you have to bed them and that cost more. After that as you get money you can have the avtion trued and squared and a quality order a quality barrel. Also don't go cheap on the optics get the best you can, save for longer if you have to. If you want the cheapest overall go with the savage probably the best as far as pricew and out of the box. The remington sendero mentioned above is more pricey but comes with a heavy barrel and HS stock , its big and heavy though. I would suggest the 7 Rem Mag best overall balistics with managable recoil, you won't shoot good if you aren't comfortable with the gun. Check out (best of the west) .com or something like that. They have videos that show and explain everything about building a long range shooting system. I believe you can rent it from some of the online DVD rental places it called How to shoot beyond belief. Finally 700 is really to far except for the a select few who really know what there doing the gun is a small part of being able to do this. Try maybe a max of around 400 after lots and lots of practice.
 
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