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What caliber for "narco tank"?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by armoredman, May 26, 2011.

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  1. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelo..._thelookout/mexican-officials-seize-narcotank

    Apparently homemade armored vehicles in Mexico are becoming more and more popular. This one is an F-150 with firing ports and a machine gun turret. Look at the Spanish language video linked in the article for more views of some of the stuff they are fielding. I actually see some resemblance between them and the armored cars of WWI...
     
  2. Sgt_R

    Sgt_R Member

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    The best response would be to get as far away from it as possible and wait for the National Guard to sort it out. Though if I was cornered... I don't have a .50 in my safe, so I suppose I'd try malatov cocktails.

    R
     
  3. Nushif

    Nushif Member

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    The only caliber here starts with a 1. 105 ... 155 ... maybe a 30mm might do the trick, too.
    But this is kind of the thing I talk about in the Quality of Life thread.
     
  4. Caliper_Mi

    Caliper_Mi Member

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    Something with a steel or tungsten core. Bore size would depend on how thick that stuff is.
     
  5. Heretic

    Heretic Member

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    Oh man, I got to get me one of those!!!
    Just for duck huntin' you understand.
     
  6. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    I do wonder about the quality of steel used - mild steel will fail before armor steel.
     
  7. mgregg85

    mgregg85 Member

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    I wonder what a lot of 40mm rounds would do to that thing...
    300px-HK_GMW.jpg

    Or I think a quad .50 would make quick work of it...
    quad.jpg
    Hehe, the "krautmower".
     
  8. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Nushif, I don't think we should start stocking up on anti tank munitions here in the States, but these ARE being seen on a regular basis in Mexico. I doubt they would survive many cross border raids, or be at all useful in that category, but who knows - maybe we'll see an "army" of narco tanks rolling across the Brownsville bridge. :)
    Probably not...
     
  9. Heretic

    Heretic Member

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    Some fella in Colorado made his own out of a bulldozer. It took quite a while for the cops to stop him.
     
  10. kozak6

    kozak6 Member

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    With steel plate armor, an MG turret, and 20 men with military ordinance, there's not a lot one man can do with small arms.

    A .50 bmg or Lahti L39 would stop it, but then there's still the passengers.

    Marvin Heemeyer and his Killdozer.

    The police didn't stop him. He dropped a tread in a basement, got stuck, and shot himself.
     
  11. MikeNice

    MikeNice Member

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    I got a Molotov cocktail with a match to go
    I smoke my cigarette with style
    G-n-R

    I don't know why I thought of that when I read your response.

    Been hidin' out
    And layin' low
    It's nothin' new ta me
    Well you can always find
    a place to go
    If you can keep your sanity
    G-n-R

    That probably would be the most apropriate musical response to the OP.
     
  12. db_tanker

    db_tanker Member

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    30-06 or 308 AP rounds...aim for the tires and radiator or top of the hood. Go for a mobility kill.

    IF you have the equipment, then go with what was suggested in a previous post...tungsten solids will do wonders with that kinda stuff...I am sure they aren't using oil-hardened steel or chobham.


    Of course, if you have to be absolutely positively able to take that guy out....
     

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  13. Sebastian the Ibis

    Sebastian the Ibis Member

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    IED's have been working well on much more heavily armored vehicles for years. However, Narco's don't have Uncle Sugar's logistics footprint, so your chances of setting up an IED ambush to bag one of these is slim to none. There isn't a convoy of these going by every day to resupply the base Arby's.

    If I really had to worry about one of these overrunning my hacienda, and I had the equipment, I'd consider a huge pitfall trap. 20 heavily armored narco mercenaries are much easier to deal with after their "narco tank" just hit an 8 ft deep pothole at 70 mph.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  14. Jed Carter

    Jed Carter Member

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    F-150? F-350 maybe. What is the top speed, Gs in a turn? Bet it handles worse than a garbage truck. You could probably stop it with a .22lr just shoot out the rear tires and wait till it rolls over in a turn. Just a big speed bump should do it.
     
  15. ny32182

    ny32182 Member

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    Hard to see, but the front grill/radiator, and driver's door don't look very heavily protected. I bet an M82 to those areas would work wonders.
     
  16. ForumSurfer

    ForumSurfer Member

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    Even if I have something to penetrate that...once they start returning fire, I'm toast.

    I'll stick to trying to outrun it.

    On the bright side, the local LEO's can just spray paint SWAT on the side and they are good to go!
     
  17. mustang_steve

    mustang_steve Member

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    I'd be inclined to think a spray down with enough napalm will get rid of it.

    Burn the oxygen out of the internal compartment and things will come ot a stop real fast.
     
  18. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    There's another one that was found, El Mostrau it was called, that had the radiator completely protected, but left the TIRES exposed! Beautiful welding work, incredibly stupid execution. The vehicle was found abandoned with front tire blown and rear tires burned off.
    Armored glass must be in short supply, as most of the ones I have found picturesd of did not have glass in most of the windows. Either no glass, or taken by the winner for thier next narco tank.
    You're right, BTW, I can't imagine the handling on this thing to be very good with all that extra weight, and the roads in Mexico must eventually rip them apart just through vibration. Another story I found said the armored truck featured in the linked story was not "captured", but "abandoned"...probably gave up the ghost.
    Looked like something Col Smith and B.A. Barracus would build...


    Edit to add, the one called El Monstrau was estimated to have a top speed of 68. How they "estimated" that from a truck with no tires baffles me, unless the Mexican military decided to refurbish and reuse.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  19. Sebastian the Ibis

    Sebastian the Ibis Member

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    Yeah, but back then nobody could hit a thing. Every round went into the dirt - did you ever see anyone get shot in that show ever with any sort of production firearm? People only got shot with water cannons, potato guns and cabage flingers.

    And back then corrugated aluminum welded onto the side of a car would make it bullet proof - the developments in 5.56 cartridge technology since 1985 are incredible.
     
  20. xfyrfiter

    xfyrfiter Member

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    I would think that a 20mm anti tank rifle would be more than adequate to stop the pickup, and AR15 for the exiting personnel.
     
  21. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    Heretic said:
    They never stopped him, his heavy contraption fell through the ground into a basement and got stuck after many hours of activity.
    They were considering military support and a hellfire anti-tank missile to stop his rampage if I recall.

    They also fired multiple .50 BMG rounds at it. The armor was layered and the .50 rounds were not effective.

    They also spent many hours cited from 12-17 cutting in with a torch to get inside after he had killed himself.
    The traditional response of opening fire with everything up to 50 BMG was ineffective.

    Armoredman said:
    They say it is an F-350. I wonder if it is the diesel model which would be more suited for such a role with low end torque.

    They essentially turn towing capacity into armor capacity, which properly reinforced should work.

    The weak points are probably the air intake/radiator and the tires, although the tires are armored in this picture. They could also armor the radiator which would cause it to overheat sooner but it is probably not used for long periods of time anyways. They will also be top heavy and so must corner slower, but the armored wheel wells over the tires probably acts somewhat like training wheels if they corner a little too fast.
    If they used solid rubber tires or filled them full of that self sealing goo or a similar substance that plugs holes combined with the armor covering them, they probably could get over an hour of use even after they were well shot up.


    Obviously the intent of such a vehicle during an escape is going to be to destroy those trying to stop it with the mounted machinegun and individuals with small arms dismounting if necessary to help. Along with support of other vehicles in the narco convoy.
    The top speed is not going to be high enough to outrun almost any typical law enforcement vehicle, and certainly no chopper. So they have to open fire and disable followers to escape.


    Such vehicles are also well suited for offensive criminal use, where top speed or escape is less important, but getting inside the defenses of a target is important.
    Such a vehicle would allow attackers to breach roadblocks and security points better even with soldiers or enemy cartel guards firing at them with machineguns.
    These armored vehicles also seem to include well reinforced battering rams, and so such vehicles would certainly have the ability to punch through security gates and maybe even walls of many compounds and security buildings. Making a new entrance with less concentrated defense than the normal one.
    If considered a disposable tool, as the seized abandoned vehicles clearly show they are, then they would be quite effective in high stakes attacks where the vehicle being disabled and abandoned was anticipated.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  22. Piper106

    Piper106 Member

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    I think a rifle firing 50 BMG rounds would stop it.

    Not sure whether the plain ball you can buy at Gander Mountain would do it, or if you would need to get some AP rounds.

    As far as the heavy armed narco thugs inside, might not be as much of a problem as you think. If a round penetrates the armor, it keeps rattling around inside the vehicle until the kinetic energy is dissapated. Does a lot of damage to people that are inside.

    Piper106
     
  23. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    I'm thinking .50 BMG API rounds would do the trick. Put one through a window and it explodes in the passenger compartment.
     
  24. jiminhobesound

    jiminhobesound Member

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    Obviously a 7.65x25 that has too much penetration for SD would be the choice for this aplication??????
     
  25. Pronghorn

    Pronghorn Member

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    Idk, as stated before the quality of the armor comes into play greatly. If the quality is relatively poor (as I am assuming) then the impact from a rifle would cause fragmentation on the inside of the armored cab and kill them with their own armor. Also, if you were to land just one bullet in one of the port windows, the round would ricochet and fragment, killing or wounding the occupants. I would just avoid it and wait for the men to exit.
     
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