What cause squib loads?

[sonier]

SO you load a bunch of min load of h-110 and some 158 grain swc you shoot all day then all of a sudden a round goes off but only just far enough to clear the cylinder. you open the cylinder and bunch of h-110 falls out that wasnt burned. what is the culprit of this?

with help here in this thread here is what the problem was,

CCI SP non-magnum
.357 magnum casing
min load of h-110
158 grain lead round nose
weak crimped
Im thinking contamination because I recently dumped a sleeve of these primers on the floor with engine grime and dirt. yes my relaoding is also my mechanic shop. I re used them, maybe some dirt and oil from re-picking them up over and over. Im also using my hands to single load the priming set up. My tube feed for priming never worked well, so I load them manually by hand. I do belive it was a combination of weak crimp, and primer contamination. My powder is very well regulated and stored safely.

well this is more education for me, I think it should be a warning that primers can be bad and crimp issues can cause squib loads. so always use caution if it dont feel right CHECK IT.

Thanks everyone for helping

 

[Walkalong]

Is that what happened?

Poor crimp....low charge weight.....no powder.....

 

[fourdollarbill]

My guess is... Your loading H110 and shooting it out of a Snub Nose revolver like a 642/637 with less than a two inch barrel.
H110 needs time to burn and 2" or less is not enough.
Just my guess...

 

[EddieNFL]

My guess is... Your loading H110 and shooting it out of a Snub Nose revolver like a 642/637 with less than a two inch barrel.
H110 needs time to burn and 2" or less is not enough.
Just my guess...

Powder has no clue how long the barrel is.

 

[sonier]

this has thrown me off as well ive loaded for 4 years so far, and this hasnt ever happened to me, the revolver is a colt python 6 1/2 i think is barrel, its either that or 6 inch

 

[orrwdd]

Sounds like incomplete primer detonation or contaminated powder to me. The primer not firing comletely would be VERY rare, so take a good look at your powder. Make sure it has stayed dry, also look at your loading environment and make sure that there is not any oily substances that can get onto the primers or powder as you load. A normal squib has no powder. The fact that powder came falling out indicates that something is very wrong with one of you components.

Bill

 

[sonier]

im thinking bad crimp right now, my rcbs powder throw never has a problem throwing correct charges and i inspect the charges with flashlight on a loading block. though i know i have had some issues with crimp and these new lead cast bullets.

 

[orrwdd]

Sonier,
I would that a light crimp would still provide enough pressure for the powder to burn fully, you would just get weak load with low velocity. I take it that you loaded either 38 spcl or 357 mag. You can try a tighter crimp, but also look hard at your components and storage of same. BTW what primers did you use?

Bill

 

[Myke_Hart]

Could have been moisture/water in the case when you loaded it.

 

[sonier]

CCI SP non-magnum
.357 magnum casing
min load of h-110
158 grain lead round nose
weak crimped
Im thinking contamination because I recently dumped a sleeve of these primers on the floor with engine grime and dirt. yes my relaoding is also my mechanic shop. I re used them, maybe some dirt and oil from re-picking them up over and over. Im also using my hands to single load the priming set up. My tube feed for priming never worked well, so I load them manually by hand. I do belive it was a combination of weak crimp, and primer contamination. My powder is very well regulated and stored safely.

well this is more education for me, I think it should be a warning that primers can be bad and crimp issues can cause squib loads. so always use caution if it dont feel right CHECK IT.

Thanks everyone for helping

 

[orrwdd]

Sonier,
Yes I would really suspect that oil on your primer caused an incomplete detonation. Cleanliness of primers is particularly important. Glad that nothing worse happened, and I think that this has been a valuable learning experience for you. Keep at it and keep improving, this reloading/shooting thing is a lof of fun.

Bill

 

[sonier]

Indeed it is, im loading a lot of .38s lately and 30/06. I cant seem to save any money I think I enjoy it too much and im buying too much componets lol, speaking of which I need to get some of that new trailboss now, my 30/30 is itching for some of that

 

[fourdollarbill]

Powder has no clue how long the barrel is.

What does that have to do with powder burn time? The powder knows when it runs out of pressure to stay lit.
Obviously certain powders take certain time limits to burn under pressure. Lets use bogus generic numbers... If 10 grains of H110 takes 2 milliseconds to burn off under pressure and you only give it 3/4 of a millisecond then it will extinguish. If your suggestion was true then I could use any powder in any caliber.

 

[orrwdd]

I don't think that the powder needs pressure to burn, it just needs to be contained to generate pressure. Ever throw a match into a coffee can of smokeless powder? It is not under pressure and burns just fine.

I think what would happen with a light crimp is that low pressure would be generated resulting in a weak bullet with low velocity, but the remaining powder will burn giving a very impressive fireball. I have seen them do this.

Bill

 

[sonier]

most smokeless does indeed need pressure to create the power involved, heres a test. you say ever throw a match into coffee can of powder it burns fine, yes it does. next part we all agree smokeless is more powerful then blackpowder yes? well take a sploch of black powder and a sploch of smokeless tell me which one burns more violently and quickly. the answer is blackpowder, blackpowder has the same rate of burn in open air no pressure as it does under pressure such as a cartridge. smokeless needs pressure to reach its full potential. H-110 is a VERY pressure sensitive powder while blackpowder is insensitive to pressure or not.

 

[EddieNFL]

What does that have to do with powder burn time? The powder knows when it runs out of pressure to stay lit.

What does barrel length have to do with a squib load? If this was caused by a short barrel, the OP would have never gotten the first bullet down the bore. Poor ignition or contaminated powder. Powder, primer, bullet or case have no idea how long the barrel is.

 

[blindhog1964]

Sounds like to me it could have been a obstruction in the flash hole like a granular of corncob or something, or dirt where you dropped the primer and when seated lined up right with the flash hole.

 

[fourdollarbill]

...caused by a short barrel, the OP would have never gotten the first bullet down...

Well sure it can happen. Its not logical to think a slow burning powder can burn the same in a short time under pressure as a long time under pressure. I have a 38 spl load with an AA9 recipe that shoots fine in a 6" barrel but leaves alot of unburnt powder and occasional squibs in my 642. If it was safe I would suggest trying it.
Please, no disrespect intended but your wrong about the powder and barrell length thing. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your point?

Either way the OP sounds like he found the answer he was looking for. BUT this topic on barrell length vs powder could be a pretty interesting forum topic. I'm always up for a lesson or two.

 

[EddieNFL]

Well sure it can happen. Its not logical to think a slow burning powder can burn the same in a short time under pressure as a long time under pressure. I have a 38 spl load with an AA9 recipe that shoots fine in a 6" barrel but leaves alot of unburnt powder and occasional squibs in my 642. If it was safe I would suggest trying it.
Please, no disrespect intended but your wrong about the powder and barrell length thing. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your point?

Either way the OP sounds like he found the answer he was looking for. BUT this topic on barrell length vs powder could be a pretty interesting forum topic. I'm always up for a lesson or two.

If I'm following, you seem to be saying the bullet could clear the cylinder, pressure drops and the remainder of the charge doesn't burn. ???

 

[fourdollarbill]

If I'm following, you seem to be saying...

Not the cylinder but the barrel. Yes you will lose psi after jumping the bc gap but you still need some barrel length for pressures sake.

 

[EddieNFL]

I agree, you may find unburned powder in shorter barrels, but not leave a slug in the bore just because of barrel length.

The OP's problem has nothing to do with barrel length.

 

[fourdollarbill]

...not leave a slug in the bore just because of barrel length.

Well if anything, we agree to disagree.
But do you agree that too low of a powder charge can cause a squib?

 

[EddieNFL]

Well if anything, we agree to disagree.
But do you agree that too low of a powder charge can cause a squib?

Please explain how a properly ignited, uncontaminated powder charge of sufficient weight could leave a projectile in the bore.

Yes, too little powder can cause a squib....regardless of barrel length.

 

[buck460XVR]

CCI SP non-magnum
.357 magnum casing
min load of h-110
158 grain lead round nose
weak crimped

With the above formula, you have a squib waitin' to happen. First off Hodgdon, the manufacturer of H110/W296 and just about every other loading book I have, strongly recommends a Magnum primer with H110/W296....especially in .357. H110/W296 is a hard powder to ignite and the recommendations on using magnum primers has to do with squib loads. Add to that a minimum load that leaves a lot of empty case and a weak crimp(H110/W296 NEEDS a firm crimp for proper ignition).

H110/W296 is not a powder that works well in reduced loads. There are plenty of other powders out there that will work better for that purpose. Save the H110/W296 for legitimate magnum loads.

 

[EddieNFL]

I've shot quite a few pounds of H110 using standard Federal primers. Also, the minimum charge is about 15 grains with a 158 jacketed. If that won't push a SWC down the pipe, try PETN.