What gun designs can go back in time?

[PaladinX13]

Inspired by Nightcrawler's "Futuristic Guns", I'm curious what is the most "advanced" type of firearm that could be brought the furthest back in time and have maximum impact. So three parts: The Gun, The Time Period, The Impact.

A bad example would be:
Glock, Cavemen, Cavemen with guns... because the cavemen would be unable to make or replicate the glock (if even understand it).

A better example might be:
AK47, late 1800s, etc.
I don't think there's any technology inherently outside the grasp of the 1800s in an AK... the mass production techniques, yes, but a hand crafted AK47 should be possible.

Of course I'm ignorant, so your answers are welcome!

 

[Owen]

Not even a huge stretch...Miniguns in the civil war era.

owen

 

[Justin]

I seem to vaguely recall reading somewhere that there were experiments after the Civil War that involved hooking a steam engine up to a gatling gun.

I want to say it was something that the Navy tried?

 

[Mike Irwin]

A couple of scoped bolt action rifles at Agincourt or Crecy in French hands.

Some M16s in American hands during the American Revolution.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Genghis Khan with a few hundred thousand Ak-47s.

 

[PaladinX13]

Gun designs not actually the guns themselves. Imagine you could only send them 2D documents....

 

[Justin]

I think that what Paladin is asking about isn't so much of 'what modern firearm would be best for trouncing the bad guys at X historical battle.'

I think that what he's asking about is, given economic/societal development at a particular period of time, could a particular nation build/field a modern arm?

For example, if you took a set of Remington 870 blueprints back in time to Roman civilization, would they be scientifically advanced enough to actually manufacture 870's?

(or AK's, or whathaveyou.)

Seems to me the big bugbear would be if the understanding of materials back then would be advanced enough to do that.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

If you want to read a well-thought out novel considering the impact of modern firearms on history, check out Harry Turteldove's The Guns of the South . It's the book with the picture of Robert E. Lee holding an AK-47 on the cover.

 

[mete]

Mr. Gatling lived into the 20th century and continued his work. He hooked up his gun to an electric motor and acheived a rate of 3000 rounds per minute.

 

[Preacherman]

The problem wouldn't necessarily be with the designs, but rather with the metallurgy, the propellant, and the projectile. Any skilled craftsman, working with even limited tools, could hand-file parts to fit together with reasonable operating efficiency, given enough time. However:

1. The metallurgy needed to produce high-grade steel didn't exist until the second half of the 19th century. It's no good having a craftsman produce a rifle without steel good enough to contain the power of propellant going off.

2. Virtually all modern firearms (say, post-1900) are designed for use with smokeless powder. They will "gum up" with the residue if used with black powder. Also, the use of small-caliber cartridges only became viable with efficient propellants to get them up to a useable velocity. This is why the US service cartridge went from a .45-70 black powder round to a .30-40 Krag to a .30-'03 to a .30-'06 in the space of ten years or so. (You would also have to deal with the availability of materials to fabricate primers...)

3. The projectile would also be important. If using lead only, without a jacket, one would severely limit the attainable velocity. Jacketed bullets only became commonplace with the advent of smokeless powders (in the 1880's and onward).

I think one very viable action that would bypass these problems would be the pump-action shotgun. Black powder wouldn't gum up the works too badly: the loads of birdshot, buckshot and slug would work just fine: cartridges could be fabricated from cardboard, assuming primers and brass bases were available: and the metallurgy for a low-pressure shotgun round is a lot less demanding than for a rifle or pistol round.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

It seems that Afghan tribesmen didn't have too much trouble hand-making copies of the Martini rifles. I understand that they're still turning out decent made-from-scratch AKs in the Khyber pass area in the modern day.

Teaching ancient cultures to make ammo would be the tricky part. I imagine black powder can be made by fiddling about with charchoal, sulphur, and saltpetre, but I have no clue how one would make nitrocellulose from scratch.

So, maybe some simple falling-block 45-70s, built bulky to make up for inferior metallurgy. Still _way_ better than anything else back several hundred years ago. I mean, the extended range alone would make a huge difference. Whip up some decent Vernier aperture sights and start engaging the Gaulish hordes with volley-fire at a mile out.

The irony is, Western Europe had some surprisingly advanced firearm ideas that faded into obscurity. Apparently, many small, early cannons had a pre-charged powder container (imagine a coffee mug full of BP) that was fitted into the breech of a cannon, then primed and fired. Not quite modern fixed-ammunition, but not a bad idea for 1400 AD...

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Preacherman wrote:

1. The metallurgy needed to produce high-grade steel didn't exist until the second half of the 19th century. It's no good having a craftsman produce a rifle without steel good enough to contain the power of propellant going off.

I think the Japanese had it long before that.

 

[Triad]

I think the ancient Egyptians could have made a functional matchlock.

 

[Shaughn Leayme]

A suggestion on the type, instead of taking a design for an AK (which has several factors against it) why not take back a design that while advanced for the age is replicateable with the technology, that would be available.

You have the Matchlock , lets take the plans for a Brown Bess Flintlock Musket back with us.

Or

Perhaps something along the lines of an Enfield 3 band Musket and the chemical composition and design of Musket caps and Minnie balls and designs for the needed machinery.

How about better ways to refine black powder and to control it's quality, make advanced (for the time) explosive compounds, that could be made from available materials.

How about taking cannon designs and refinements and making the plans available.

Or

Bring back techniques to make better weaponry, metal working techniques that could be applied to the time frame in which you land.

Work with what you know you are going to have, instead of introducing or trying to, technology that they are not capable of producing.