What handgun bullet/wall materials = most ricochets?

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PaladinX13

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What would a bullet and a room have to be made out of to ricochet 3-4 times and still have enough oomph! to penetrate a skull (but not kill) if fired from a handgun and in a standard caliber (9mm, .45, etc)?

This is an actual circumstance where the injured person ended up with Wernicke's aphasia- a disorder characterized by jumbled speech- but the facts are sparse leading me to wonder how it could've happened.
 
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What would a bullet and a room have to be made out of to ricochet 3-4 times and still have enough oomph! to penetrate a skull (but not kill) if fired from a handgun and in a standard caliber (9mm, .45, etc)?
*SIGH* when did common sense take a nap?
 
My neighbor, retired USN, said one day that in training for security duty on board ship they were given a choice of a rifle, pistol, or shotgun. The instructor pointed out that if there was someone around the corner in a passage 00 buckshot from a shotgun would reliably ricochet off the metal of the passage and bounce around. Might not kill or even severely injure someone, but it'd sure get and keep their attention.

So while that's not a handgun.... :evil:
 
This is an actual circumstance where the injured person ended up with Wernicke's aphasia- a disorder characterized by jumbled speech- but the facts are sparse leading me to wonder how it could've happened.
 
i shot a copier once and two bullets came back at me. does that help?

i play billiards and goofing around in a shot house a while back i reaffirmed that a 380 jacketed will bounce true at 45degrees and skid at and below 30 off of concrete. i played one off of the floor @45 and it came off of the wall @ 30 into the ceiling. a corner shot floor 45/ wall 30/ wall slide to ceiling as expected. end of game. FWIW
 
In the same vein as steel shot, would a single-shot handgun firing steel shot have any chance of that many ricochets?
 
In the same vein as steel shot, would a single-shot handgun firing steel shot have any chance of that many ricochets?
A steel bullet or even something like a solid copper FMJ should have some high potential.
Pretty much everything listed on the federal prohibited list of what creates an illegal 'armor' piercing handgun material, with some they missed.

Another big factor is the angles of the ricochet. Just like you can skip a rock on water at one angle, but just have it splash into the water at another, the bullet will retain different amounts of energy after ricochets at different angles.
I don't recomend it because of the clear danger to you and anyone else around, but you can get quite accurate with intentional ricochets (of course if the surface chips, breaks etc it can give erratic results) having them go where you want.

A round ball, especialy one that is plated will be easier to ricochet in a desired direction because it won't start tumbling and impacting at different random points on the bullet giving more erratic results like other bullets. A sphere that holds its shape gives much more repeatable and predictable results.


As for a bullet in common use, a .22 is exempt from the regulation of how much of the jacket can legaly be the total weight of the bullet (no more than 25% for rounds above .22) which means some can consist of mainly jacket. Such a .22 should ricochet on hard surfaces very well. They might not be really common anymore though because the lead inside is cheaper than the copper jacket, so there is probably not many manufacturers adding more jacket material than necessary.


Think about a bullet trap. It is essentialy forcing a ricochet. You could even design one to richochet the rounds in a half circle right back at the shooter with all internal flat surfaces if you were inclined, causing them to do a 180. If each ricochet was a gradual change from the previous angle, much of the energy would be retained.
The greater the angle a round impacts a surface at the more of the energy is generaly lost. Several slight angles would preserve most of the energy of the round.
In a circular room with sheet metal lined walls you could fire the round along the wall and be hit in the back.
In fact if you setup a gun to fire by itself in such a room along the wall it would be interesting to see just how many revolutions around the room the projectile took before coming to a stop. The harder the surface and harder the bullet the more ricochets possible with more energy retention. One of the reasons lead is actualy much safer at a range than something like steel. It takes a bigger error with lead projectiles fired downrange to put people in danger than with steel projectiles.
You could ricochet something like steel shot all over the place by impacting a hard surface at an angle, whether a rock in the ground or a piece of metal etc
 
Well I came home once and I heard a funny noise around the corner. Using the reflection
of the stainless steel refrigerator I off of a granite bar top, at 45.85° then off of the cathedral ceiling (5/8" drywall - but I used a screwhead on a dbl stud) then a lamp stand which was metal with a 27.875°. Just a sidebar at t is point, if I had it to do over again I'd have used a 9mm +P, or .45 +P^2. Unfotunately I only had a standard .45. Needless to say by the time it hit the bad guy significant energy had been bled off. The shot did manage to pop a large zit on his cheek before knocking out his front teeth and settling between his teeth and gum. At first he had what seemed to be a Broca's aphasia, then I realized the bullet had also taken out some portion of his tongue as well. The arresting officer told me later he would always have a lisp. They had run into him before and he was always kinda slow, so the Broca's wasn't very noticable.

Maybe not exactly the same as the scenario described, but interesting. It was a once in a lifetime shot, even after I replaced the lamp, I haven't been able to reproduce it. It's getting hard to find volunteers for test subjects.
 
John, I feel your pain. The city use to loan out prisoners for those sort of tests. lately however, there have been so many politicians and policeman being sent there that the quality of the test subjects is no longer reliable. Corrupticut is getting to be a hard place to do business in.
 
Been a member since the beginning but when did The High Road become a forum for kids without the whole "high road" aspect? If you've got nothing to contribute but snarks, doubt, and idiocy you're welcome to keep it to yourself or make your own thread.

The great irony here is that the know-it-alls are proclaiming an actual event stupid rather than employing any kind of real expertise to actually consider the circumstance.

Thanks Larry and Zoog, though, for actually trying to answer/investigate a question rather than turn it into a quagmire of nonsense.
 
Quote:
i shot a copier once and two bullets came back at me. does that help?

Are you sure it wasn't returning fire? Some of those things are cranky.
LOL I actually have two of them and cranky doesn't cover it!!!

In the same vein as steel shot, would a single-shot handgun firing steel shot have any chance of that many ricochets?

If someone shot a FMJ or any other hard round in a steel room at just the right angle. It might richocet a few times. But the real question is why?

To me it sounds like a freak accident!!

Been a member since the beginning but when did The High Road become a forum for kids without the whole "high road" aspect? If you've got nothing to contribute but snarks, doubt, and idiocy you're welcome to keep it to yourself or make your own thread.

The great irony here is that the know-it-alls are proclaiming an actual event stupid rather than employing any kind of real expertise to actually consider the circumstance.

Thanks Larry and Zoog, though, for actually trying to answer/investigate a question rather than turn it into a quagmire of nonsense.

Nice edit. I thought this question was a joke before you edited you OP. Anything can happen if someone does something stupid enough. Think of your senario like a pool table if someone hits two objects with enough force at an angle it will richochet. How many times and if it could come back to hit the shooter. Nobody knows but the person that got shot.

One of my friends was shooting out in the desert. I think it was a 30-06 or a 7 win mag at a steel plate 110 yards away. The steel is on a swivel. So it rotates when struck. The sleeve turned inside out when it struck the plate and came back 110 yards and hit him in the thumb. That was a fluke also. He doest want to ask why it happened. He just knows it can happen and doesn't want try that again. "Steel is fun, But paper is done"

This is an actual circumstance where the injured person ended up with Wernicke's aphasia- a disorder characterized by jumbled speech- but the facts are sparse leading me to wonder how it could've happened.

Wernicke's Aphasia is brain damage. Being hit with a bullet can do that.
 
If you want serious, OK. I'll try but it won't last long.

As a physician I can tell you that the area of the brain you are talking about injuring is a very distinct anatomical region. Rarely does someone suffer a stroke that only affects that area. Meaning they usually have other distinct deficits, most of the time they are just completely aphasic. The distinction of Weirnicke's and Broca's are taught in neuroanatomy in first year med school, it's much more of an academic issue than a clinical one. The chances of such an incident as you describe resulting from trauma let alone a gunshot to the head are astronomical. Been a long time since I took statistics, but it would have to be somewhere quite a bit greater than winning the lottery, three or four weeks in a row (insert your own longshot here). So to start with, I highly doubt just from a medical aspect that the story is true. Sounds like a great urban legend, throw in a obscure medical term to give it credibility.

Next - what the hell difference would it make. Please don't tell me you would actually try to proccess the chances of something like that recurring in a SD or HD situaiton. If it is a controlled situation like a range or some other setting, why in world would you even take the chance?

There are probably several other reasons not to take this seriously, but those are enough for me. So the next best thing is to have some fun with it. Now if you are offended, sorry about that. But I have never been able to take myself that seriously.

Now on the other hand if you are able to show some proof the incident is real and anything other than an incredible freak occurence of near Biblical proportions (meaning it is reproducible - thus the story line of my previous post) I truly would be interested. That was the point of my post, I was using satire to make a point. It kinda looses its effect when you have to explain though, I'll try harder next time.

Again if you are really upset, sorry about making fun of your thread. Not really sorry but a little bit anyway. (This is the point where I am having a hard time taking it seriously much longer.)

OK so I have spent way too time on any of this than it is worth. I will leave your thread alone now. :banghead:
 
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