What if an officer frisks you, and misses something?
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carebear
Member
Don't thay usually ask if you have any weapons or sharp objects before they frisk? If so, and the knife is legal, I'd probably volunteer it.
If they don't or didn't, are you guilty of something?
Are you going to take a ride with him where you'll be re-frisked?
I'd think those two questions would kinda drive my honesty.
If it's a mix up and you want to be a good guy and the knife is legal, go ahead and ask if he needs to see it.
If you are guilty of something and they find it later, you having "hid it" (their knee-jerk response to avoid admitting they messed up and missed it I'm sure) won't look good.
I guess I'd volunteer it either way, as long as the knife is legal. If not, I might try to ditch it. If I were a criminal. Cops find stuff in the back seats of cruisers that they missed and were dumped by suspects all the time.
If they don't or didn't, are you guilty of something?
Are you going to take a ride with him where you'll be re-frisked?
I'd think those two questions would kinda drive my honesty.
If it's a mix up and you want to be a good guy and the knife is legal, go ahead and ask if he needs to see it.
If you are guilty of something and they find it later, you having "hid it" (their knee-jerk response to avoid admitting they messed up and missed it I'm sure) won't look good.
I guess I'd volunteer it either way, as long as the knife is legal. If not, I might try to ditch it. If I were a criminal. Cops find stuff in the back seats of cruisers that they missed and were dumped by suspects all the time.
carebear
Member
I would think the 5th would only apply if having the weapon is a crime. Otherwise, what are you incriminating yourself of?
Well they are going to ask you if you're carrying something...
So you really have two situations:
1) Whatever you're carrying is legal... and you tell the arresting officer you have it, you're good to go (disregarding the actual circumstances of why you're being searched)
or
2) Whatever you are carrying is illegal... then it breaks down into 2 options
A) You tell them, and it appears that you're being cooperative (could be a good thing for you)
B) You don't tell them. If they processes you any further into the detention system it WILL be found at some point... assuming you don't use it try and escape you'll still be seen as trying to hide something from them (probably a bad thing for you).
Way I look at it is... When I'm carrying a concealed weapon it's not because police and/or local law enforcement are the enemy, it's just because I don't trust my life to their response times. If they are "local" and "present" enough to search me then they're my friends and I'll cooperate completely.
If I'm carrying something illegally, then I'm already in the wrong.
So you really have two situations:
1) Whatever you're carrying is legal... and you tell the arresting officer you have it, you're good to go (disregarding the actual circumstances of why you're being searched)
or
2) Whatever you are carrying is illegal... then it breaks down into 2 options
A) You tell them, and it appears that you're being cooperative (could be a good thing for you)
B) You don't tell them. If they processes you any further into the detention system it WILL be found at some point... assuming you don't use it try and escape you'll still be seen as trying to hide something from them (probably a bad thing for you).
Way I look at it is... When I'm carrying a concealed weapon it's not because police and/or local law enforcement are the enemy, it's just because I don't trust my life to their response times. If they are "local" and "present" enough to search me then they're my friends and I'll cooperate completely.
If I'm carrying something illegally, then I'm already in the wrong.
I always ask if they have any knives, guns, hand grenades, unregistered thermonuclear devices or sharp objects before I frisk someone. Usually they tell me exactly what I will find. If the knife is legal and I'm not making a custodial arrest, they get it back along with the rest of their property at the end of the contact.
If I'm making a custodial arrest, I ask them one more time before I transport. If they don't fess up to anything they have on them then, they get charged with the felony of bringing contraband into a penal institution.
Jeff
If I'm making a custodial arrest, I ask them one more time before I transport. If they don't fess up to anything they have on them then, they get charged with the felony of bringing contraband into a penal institution.
Jeff
carebear
Member
Jeff,
Would you also agree in theory that even if the knife is a bit too long (or something) but the contactee "isn't the guy you're looking for" (or obviously not a "bad guy") the honesty in volunteering the info is more likely to draw a warning or other officer discretion?
That's how I tend to think. If I've broken a law, intentionally or not, then "it's a fair cop" if I get caught. All I can do is try to be respectful and honest enough to maybe catch a break.
Pass the hello test and all.
Would you also agree in theory that even if the knife is a bit too long (or something) but the contactee "isn't the guy you're looking for" (or obviously not a "bad guy") the honesty in volunteering the info is more likely to draw a warning or other officer discretion?
That's how I tend to think. If I've broken a law, intentionally or not, then "it's a fair cop" if I get caught. All I can do is try to be respectful and honest enough to maybe catch a break.
Pass the hello test and all.
Carebear,
Illinois has a pretty good law on knives. Basically it's how you use them, unless it's a switchbalde or other weapon that is specifically prohibited. I've never worried about a knife I found on a cooperative subject.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...eqEnd=53000000&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961.
As you can see the law requires me to prove intent to use it unlawfully. So unless it's a switchblade, brass knuckles, throwing star or ballistic knife, it's not automatically contraband.
It's always a good idea to come clean and hope for a break. Failing to tell me about the knife may make me believe you intended to misuse it, perhaps in an attack on me if I let my guard down. Which could lead to a charge of unlawful use of weapons...
Jeff
Illinois has a pretty good law on knives. Basically it's how you use them, unless it's a switchbalde or other weapon that is specifically prohibited. I've never worried about a knife I found on a cooperative subject.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...eqEnd=53000000&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961.
As you can see the law requires me to prove intent to use it unlawfully. So unless it's a switchblade, brass knuckles, throwing star or ballistic knife, it's not automatically contraband.
It's always a good idea to come clean and hope for a break. Failing to tell me about the knife may make me believe you intended to misuse it, perhaps in an attack on me if I let my guard down. Which could lead to a charge of unlawful use of weapons...
Jeff
carebear
Member
AK is much like that, almost every possession crime has an "intent" clause.
Which is good, since as a former contractor I carry "burglery tools" in my truck all the time.
Which is good, since as a former contractor I carry "burglery tools" in my truck all the time.
Ryder
Member
I have not offered that information in the past. I have been "invited" to sit in cop cars several times while they ran my papers looking for warrants. I'd hitch rides when I was younger and no they did not ask about nor did they search for weapons. Maybe I have an honest face? I certainly have an honest record and they'd just let me go on my way.
These knives were not legal in size nor in the way they were carried. They were carried for potential self-defense against strangers who invited me to sit in their cars. Why would it not be needed if it's being used as intended?
These knives were not legal in size nor in the way they were carried. They were carried for potential self-defense against strangers who invited me to sit in their cars. Why would it not be needed if it's being used as intended?
Hkmp5sd
Member
The last time I was frisked, the deputy was far more interested in playing with my Glock 27 than the 3 knives he removed from me.
chopinbloc
Member
sometimes, they don't ask. the last time i was searched, they didn't ask and although they got the full size kimber that i had iwb at about four o'clock and my pocket knife, i had to tell them about the g27 carried on my ankle. later, while sitting on the curb waiting for their attention, i realized that they might want to know about the handcuff key on my keychain so i told them about it and they didn't seem to care. what's scary is that if i were a bad guy, i would have been sat down on the curb with a pistol and a handcuff key i hope they learned from that and performed a better search on everyone afterwords. that could have been a bad one and the way i see it, the only thing that prevented the deaths of the two officers present was the fact that i'm NOT a homocidal maniac.
actually, many cruisers have a removable tray in the trunk which conveniently catches any contraband stuffed into the seat by the perp. it is also the policy of many departments to search the vehicle thoroughly before and after transporting ANYONE. this practice allows them to use any contraband found in the car as evidence in court.
i hope they learned from that and performed a better search on everyone afterwords. that could have been a bad one and the way i see it, the only thing that prevented the deaths of the two officers present was the fact that i'm NOT a homocidal maniac.actually, many cruisers have a removable tray in the trunk which conveniently catches any contraband stuffed into the seat by the perp. it is also the policy of many departments to search the vehicle thoroughly before and after transporting ANYONE. this practice allows them to use any contraband found in the car as evidence in court.
If I'm remembering correctly the last time I had a contact with the police where they asked if I had any weapons or anything in my vehicle I told thewm there was almost certainly a knife or two in there either in the glove compartment or center armrest (it was my truck, which I use for hunting amongst other things and there's always a knife suitable for skinning in there in case I manage to forget to take one with me) and they didn't seem to care--I think he actually said "ah, I don't care about that" in an unconcerned manner. I have to say after the initial I guess I would say surprise at realizing I was armed (apparently something not come across as often anymore in NY, even upstate, sadly) he was very professional and didn't seem too worried once the two guns I had with me were in his possession and he realized I had a permit and everything. In fact, he gave me my one gun back loaded at the end of the contact.
So I guess the answer is yes, if asked I'd definitely volunteer it. If frisked for some reason and they don't say anything its a tougher call, because what if they realized and just weren't concerned, and I don't wish to make it seem like I am implying they "missed" something. I'd probably try to find a polite way of letting them know I had it w/out making it seem like they had made a mistake not knowing--nobody likes someone implying they don't know how to do their job.
So I guess the answer is yes, if asked I'd definitely volunteer it. If frisked for some reason and they don't say anything its a tougher call, because what if they realized and just weren't concerned, and I don't wish to make it seem like I am implying they "missed" something. I'd probably try to find a polite way of letting them know I had it w/out making it seem like they had made a mistake not knowing--nobody likes someone implying they don't know how to do their job.
I've had them miss my fixed blade Gerber before, and I've always brought it to their attention. The last thing I want to do is make a cop nervous or to piss him off, especially when he could give me a ticket for any number of things if he wished.
Biker
Biker
HankB
Member
Here in TX, if you're licensed to carry a concealed weapon, by law you have to inform the officer when he asks for ID if you're "packing." Usually, that means you hand your concealed handgun license over to him along with your driver's license.
Does this "one more time" occur before or after you've told them they have the right to remain silent?
Hmmm . . . any convictions, seeing as you're the one bringing them - and by extension, the contraband - into the penal institution? No responsibility on your part at all? Sweet . . .
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TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I want to know what the heck you guys are doing that involves you being frisked so often? 
I like to take my morning walks between two and four AM. Also, once in while, I ride through towns that don't take kindly to 'my type'.TexasSIGman said:I want to know what the heck you guys are doing that involves you being frisked so often?
Biker
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
I was taken in for a breathalyzer test at age 17. I was frisked befoe they put me in the squad car. No one asked if I was armed or possessed contraband. I volunteered the information that they had missed a large Barlow type knife. They took possession of it.
At the station, the breathalyzer result was 'less than detectable' according to the operator. So one of the officers informed me that I would be charged with carrying a concealed weapon. No prior record of convictions, arrests, or traffic stops.
At the station, the breathalyzer result was 'less than detectable' according to the operator. So one of the officers informed me that I would be charged with carrying a concealed weapon. No prior record of convictions, arrests, or traffic stops.
CAS700850
Member
Jeff's post is pretty much dead on. Most officers will ask, for their own safety more than for getting an admission to carrying a weapon. Wouldn't you rather know about a needle in a pocket before you stick your hand in to search? We train the officers to advise a subject before transport that it is their last chance to avoid a felony Illegal Conveyance charge to turn over any weapons or drugs, becuase if they are found inside the facility, they will be charged with Conveyance as well as Possession (assuming the possession is illegal). Is it a violation of their 5A right to remain silent? The officer isn't compelling testimony as much as advising the subject of the possible consequences.
Personally, I'd tell. Then again, I hope that I never have to find out myself, having only faced a pat down on a couple of occassions. Well, the professional law enforcement type for business, not entertainment.
Personally, I'd tell. Then again, I hope that I never have to find out myself, having only faced a pat down on a couple of occassions. Well, the professional law enforcement type for business, not entertainment.
Igloodude
Member
I'd assume they'd ask, and I'd tell them, and if they didn't ask then I'd probably mention it during the frisk. I have no desire to trick or play games with police when it comes to their (and my) physical security.
The handcuff key on my keychain is a somewhat iffier question (and no, I'm not employed in law enforcement).
The handcuff key on my keychain is a somewhat iffier question (and no, I'm not employed in law enforcement).
I wouldn't admit anything. Most cops I have encountered have been decent guys, just doing their job, and ok with you going about your business. Occasionally I have encountered cops who have a real attitude. Don't know if I just caught them on a bad day or what. I've heard plenty about cops who have a taste for nice knives who take a blade from a person "for the officer's protection" and forget to hand it back at the end of the stop. If asked, they say "I'm sorry sir, what knife are you talking about?" If pressed they start talking about other possible charges against you they might need to investigate... you start wondering if they will swipe your knife, who says they're above tossing a small bag of weed or something into your car? At that point most people will drop it, considering it the "price" of having had contact with the police. Sad.
I have an attorney friend. He's middle-aged, drives a late model car (nice) wears a suit and tie, not a minority. Has a CCW permit. Was reaching for something in the car while driving, had to undo seat belt for maybe 20 seconds to reach it. Cop spotted him during that 20 seconds, pulled him over. Guy felt he ought to do the "right" thing, so calmly, looking straght ahead, both hands firmly on the wheel, advises the (rookie) cop that he has a firearm in the vehicle, locked in his briefcase, which is locked in the trunk, and that he has a CCW permit. Fast as you can say "Jack Sprat" he is looking down the barrel of the (now very nervous and agressive) cop's handgun.
It ended well but I do not intend to take that kind of risk, gamble my life on someone else's temperment, state of mind, and trigger control. If they want to know what I have in the car, let them guess, or better yet do a non-consensual search of the vehicle. I always travel in strict accordance with the law, they won't find any violation unless they "create" one.
I have an attorney friend. He's middle-aged, drives a late model car (nice) wears a suit and tie, not a minority. Has a CCW permit. Was reaching for something in the car while driving, had to undo seat belt for maybe 20 seconds to reach it. Cop spotted him during that 20 seconds, pulled him over. Guy felt he ought to do the "right" thing, so calmly, looking straght ahead, both hands firmly on the wheel, advises the (rookie) cop that he has a firearm in the vehicle, locked in his briefcase, which is locked in the trunk, and that he has a CCW permit. Fast as you can say "Jack Sprat" he is looking down the barrel of the (now very nervous and agressive) cop's handgun.
It ended well but I do not intend to take that kind of risk, gamble my life on someone else's temperment, state of mind, and trigger control. If they want to know what I have in the car, let them guess, or better yet do a non-consensual search of the vehicle. I always travel in strict accordance with the law, they won't find any violation unless they "create" one.
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HankB asked;
First off, unlike the TV cops, we don't advise a person of their rights until we question them. Usually the only exception to this is if they start blurting out the details of the crime. Then they are stopped and advised of their rights. I always remind them that they don't have to tell me when I ask that, but I add in that they will be strip searched at the jail, and it will be found, and at that time they are looking at felony charges and an almost sure trip to prison.
For example, I am arresting someone for driving on a suspended license. A pretty common custodial arrest around here. They go to the jail, post $100 bond and are released. Now this person has a misdemeanor amount of marijuana in a baggie in their shoe. An amount that would amount to a small fine, equivalent to a traffic ticket. The person doesn't give it up then. They are asked again at the jail. Still doesn't give it up. They find it on the strip search. Now instead of posting $100 cash and being given a notice to appear on the possession of cannabis charge, they go into the jail population, are charged with the felony of bringing contraband into a penal institution and most likely do at least a year in DOC.
Yes, we convict people for that all the time. How is it my responsibility? Am I supposed to take them home so they can hide their contraband before they go to jail? I am not bringing the contraband in, they are. Granted they have no choice in the matter, but faced with a misdemeanor possession charge or going to prison on the felony, I know which I'd pick. But it's totally their choice.
Is it your position that anything else they have on them at the time of arrest should be free and clear because they have no choice abouit going to jail?
Jeff
First off, unlike the TV cops, we don't advise a person of their rights until we question them. Usually the only exception to this is if they start blurting out the details of the crime. Then they are stopped and advised of their rights. I always remind them that they don't have to tell me when I ask that, but I add in that they will be strip searched at the jail, and it will be found, and at that time they are looking at felony charges and an almost sure trip to prison.
For example, I am arresting someone for driving on a suspended license. A pretty common custodial arrest around here. They go to the jail, post $100 bond and are released. Now this person has a misdemeanor amount of marijuana in a baggie in their shoe. An amount that would amount to a small fine, equivalent to a traffic ticket. The person doesn't give it up then. They are asked again at the jail. Still doesn't give it up. They find it on the strip search. Now instead of posting $100 cash and being given a notice to appear on the possession of cannabis charge, they go into the jail population, are charged with the felony of bringing contraband into a penal institution and most likely do at least a year in DOC.
Yes, we convict people for that all the time. How is it my responsibility? Am I supposed to take them home so they can hide their contraband before they go to jail? I am not bringing the contraband in, they are. Granted they have no choice in the matter, but faced with a misdemeanor possession charge or going to prison on the felony, I know which I'd pick. But it's totally their choice.
Is it your position that anything else they have on them at the time of arrest should be free and clear because they have no choice abouit going to jail?
Jeff
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