What if Chicago Loses Its Gun Case? (an analysis by the Bradys).

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"May issue" --discretionary permit or license -- is a violation of due process and equal justice under the law. I am surprised it has not been challenged on opoints besides 2A, just simple due process and equal justice rules.
Imagine a discretionary "may issue if the judge or sheriff likes your complexion" drivers license law. How long would that stand?


I agree.


This should be a battle after a McDonald win.


Also, I don't think we should have to have permits to have weapons at all and that the government shouldn't know what we own.


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If McDonald et al. are successful the only thing that will change is that Chicago will get the Sullivan Law on steroids. Yes, a Chicago resident will be able to purchase a pistol but it will take you six months to a year to go through the process and it will cost you about $2,000 between the licensing fees, the cost of going back and forth to wherever the licensing bureau is located, the safe you'll be required to buy, the insurance policy they'll insist you have, the training course you'll be required to take and last but not least the firearm itself. And all of this will take not just money but time.

When I finally decided to get my NYS pistol license it took me over a month just to get all the required documents for the application. Then I had to obtain four notarized affidavits attesting to my sanity and character, make three different trips to the sheriff's office/government building for various administrative tasks (fingerprints, interview, etc), select a firearm, pay for it in advance, bring the receipt back to the Sheriff's investigator and so on. To top it all off once I started my application (which cost me $104.25) it had an expiration of 60 days, meaning that if everything wasn't completed in 8 weeks my application was void and I had to start all over again and pay another $104.25. I was fortunate in that my job offered me the flexibility needed to jump through the required hoops. Most people cannot. That's why NYC has about 40,000 pistol licenses (mainly premises permits) in a City of 8 million, Suffolk County has about 29,000 pistol licenses in a county with a population of 1.2 million and so on. McDonald will not change this reality and neither will follow on cases until, and unless, the Supreme Court suddenly develops the same passion for gun rights that it did for enabling women to obtain an abortion. NYC is already preparing its smokescreen to survive the upcoming lawsuits. Unfortunately I believe the NYC government will be successful.

The Supreme Court will not restore our right to keep and bear arms, not now, not 10 years from now. We are going to have to do that work ourselves through education and political activism. The majority of the Justices simply do not have the inclination or the will, despite lifetime tenure, to strike down the NFA, GCA '68 etc. Anyone expecting judicial miracles should stop kidding themselves.
 
From what I have managed to find out, is that we have cases lined up for the 9th Circus Court dealing with discretionary issue here in Kali--the wording of the law may not change, but the issuing agencies would have to accept self defense as a valid reason with "living in ******" being adequate
 
May issue should be torn apart and done away. Unfortunately, whether or not that happens will in large part depend on whether Justice Kennedy has the intestinal fortitude to vote in favor of doing so. New York, California, New Jersey, Maryland and Massachussetts are home to a considerable number of entrenched opinion makers who consider the right to keep and bear arms to be a privilege reserved for the elites in society. I seriously doubt that SCOTUS will vote to require shall issue or Vermont carry. Many of the Justices are either hostile to the 2nd Amendment or lack the courage to require municipal leaders like Bloomberg to allow their citizens unfettered access to arms.
 
Well actually that is how the court system works.
Many people don't even have standing unless they are accused of violating some law, or otherwise can show a specific loss.
Rather than explain standing, I will say that criminal cases are primarily what set case law.

<snipped for brevity, but well worth reading>

Great commentary, Zoogster. I'd like to take it a step further, though:

Zoogster is absolutely right in that law is largely defined through the trial of criminals, not upstanding law-abiding citizens. Consequently, the people who are fighting for the rights of all men are people to whom we're generally not sympathetic, whom we really want to see in jail. Our basic sense of justice and fair play causes us to want to see the guy go down, so we're less inclined to be sympathetic when their rights are violated in some way.

Such is the nature of the beast.

It's more insidious than that, though: at this point, we have so many laws that everybody is guilty of breaking one or another at some point. Laws are often sufficiently redundant that prosecutors can turn a single act into multiple violations, charging a defendant with all of them ("charge stacking"). Not only does this mean potentially huge jail terms, and a very difficult legal defense, but it ratchets up that natural psychological pressure to see him as a "bad guy." Consider the following two accusations:

A: Charged with armed robbery
B: Charged with armed robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, brandishing, use of a firearm in the commission of a felony, abduction, wearing a mask in the commission of a felony,

Which one just feels "worse?" A might be mistakenly identified, but B has half-a-dozen charges against him! That's not a mistake, it's a pattern! He's a dirtbag, a serious offender--lock him up!

'Course, they were exactly the same act.

Yes, I'm going somewhere with this. By passing overlapping laws that encourage charge stacking, we bias the system to hold an even lower opinion of the accused. The lower our opinion of the accused (who, remember, is the advocate who defines the limits of our rights), the less sympathy we have to the violation of his rights, and thus the less we want to protect him--him who is, of course, all of us. The judge, being human, decides that in light of the "increasing professionalism" of our police force,* suing the officer or department is a more appropriate remedy than excluding the illegally-garnered evidence, and we all lose a little bit of freedom.

See where I'm going?

Of course, Joe Dirtbag gets on the news as having been convicted of half-a-dozen crimes, followed by an editorial about the city's crime wave (even though the actual crime rate is down these days), and the legislators do the only thing they know how to do: pass more laws. Next time, we charge him with eight violations. Oh, and the state has a little bit less of a restriction on how it pursues the accused, and we have a little bit less recourse when our rights are violated.

Here's an interesting story for you: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/013008dnmetexonerate.35f8af6.html

Al Goodyear† is thought to have sexually assaulted at least sixty (60!) women during his lifetime. Steven Philips served many years for crimes that Al committed; he plead guilty out of fear that his two previous acquittals would cause him to get more time in jail when he was ultimately (falsely) convicted--after all, he's already gotten away with it twice! (Or maybe he really was innocent--but are you going to take the word of somebody who was shady enough to have been picked up and charged twice?) We talk of technicalities, of "getting off" because somebody didn't dot his i's, but this is what we are really trying to protect against: convicting the innocent because somebody "knew" who did it and decided to get the "right" result.

Or maybe not.

Meanwhile, there was a case before the Supreme Court‡ last term in which prosecutors are sought to deny the defense the right to examine DNA evidence that everybody (including the prosecutor) agreed would absolutely prove guilt or innocence. The Federal government filed an amicus curiae brief supporting...the prosecutors. After all, who wants a rapist to go free? The court held 5-4 that the evidence could be withheld.

Remember, between letting the guilty go free and convicting the innocent, convicting the innocent is always the greater crime. It's so simple that it evades most people, but it's true. When we convict somebody, we close the case and move on. If we convict the wrong man, we stop looking for the right one! It's not an either-or situation, but a lesser-included-offense: convicting the innocent necessarily implies that the guilty will also avoid responsibility for the crime. It's not choose A or B, it's choose A or A and B.

So be very, very careful when you look for somebody to be "tough on crime," to get the "right" result even if it means "bending" the rules a little bit. It's your rights at risk too, not just his.




* Not cop-bashing, Supreme Court bashing. See Hudson v. Michigan, 547 U. S. 586 (2006)

† He went by Al. I heard the story from my dad, who was friends with him thirty-odd years ago. On a wild hair, dad thought to plug his name into Google and was stunned by what he found.

District Attorney's Office for the Third Judicial District, et al. v. Osborne, another excellent example of our rights being defined by someone who is, by all appearances, a real dirtbag. http://reason.com/archives/2009/03/02/does-the-constitution-grant-a
 
Man, reading the Brandy site made my head hurt. There is such a logical disconnect that i don't know where to begin. As near as I can tell, the Brady logic goes like this:

if A + B = C, then B + C = Chicken!
 
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