what is a fouling shot?

[1858rem]

well.... more specifically,
if you clean your barrel spotless,

shoot a few rounds to foul the barrel,

shoot off a group,

and run a dry patch down the bore before your next group, do you still need to shoot a fouling round off?

is a single dry patch enough cleaning you really need to fire off another fouling round?....sorry to ask but recently resolved my rifle problems and can start developing a load, but have VERY thoroughly(150/200rds:banghead diminished my supply of bullets and need to know what works and does not before i go and buy more of the same thing(because i ran out:banghead just to find out it is no good! and cannot currently afford many fouling shots

 

[interlock]

fouling shots

In my opinion fouling shots are a myth.....

After a thorough cleaning of a rifle barrel and after storage then i always use a patch soaked in methalated spirits. this removes all traces of oil from the barrel and so there is no need for the fouling shot.

Of course when i am storing rifles i lightly oil the bore. I think that the fouling shot is really to get the oil out and so equalising the pressure.

interlock

 

[R.W.Dale]

In my opinion fouling shots are a myth.....

After a thorough cleaning of a rifle barrel and after storage then i always use a patch soaked in methalated spirits. this removes all traces of oil from the barrel and so there is no need for the fouling shot.

Of course when i am storing rifles i lightly oil the bore. I think that the fouling shot is really to get the oil out and so equalising the pressure.

interlock

And yet you believe in the myth enough to take steps to negate the need for said fouling shot.

When starting out with a fresh clean oily bore I've seen that first shot be as much as 150fps slower over a chrony than the following shots. When starting out with a clean bore I'll do a fouler or 2 before shooting groups. BUT I seldom need to do this because I only clean and lube my bores after they begin to foul enough to see a decrease in accuracy or for long term storage. For these reasons I also never hunt with a "clean" bore.

In my opinion simply removing oil with a alcohol will eliminate 90% of the variation from clean vs fouled but for real precision work you'll want that other 10% that only a few shots downrange will provide

and run a dry patch down the bore before your next group, do you still need to shoot a fouling round off?

in my opinion NO, simply because a single dry patch isn't accomplishing anything anyhow

 

[taliv]

1858, the key is consistency. do the same thing every time every time you clean. offhand, i'd say running one dry patch down the barrel is just wasting your time. no idea why you would do that

 

[1858rem]

well im not too sure about the dry patch either, i had read about cleaning between groups and didnt think it would be necessary to break out the whole cleaning kit every other group, so i concluded it must be just to remove loose fouling and have a consistent start every time...or something anyhow!



i always used a dry patch after each shot in my flintlock to remove some fouling so i guess thats why it made sense to do it up untill now...
now i have no idea and am confused and still need to find a good, repeatable way to shoot accurate groups to start developing a load or even see what kind of accuracy my limited supply of remaining bullets can produce**but not waste a ton of ammo on foulers**

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I will certainly will tell you what fouling shots have done for me. They have caused me to miss the first round slightly up and slightly left for twenty years in the military by 1 1/2 to 2 inches at 25 meters.
If there is a way to to really cancel out a foul shot let me know.

 

[1858rem]

dont clean it

 

[interlock]

Krochus,
Yes maybe so. Maybe my fouling shot is the alcohol covered swab. both are doing the same thing in effect.

I always hunt with a clean bore, until after the first shot anyway. I find there is not enough variation between that first shot and a further 2 than in a normal group of three to differentiate.

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[SilentStalker]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a fouling shot?

 

[R.W.Dale]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a fouling shot?

a round sent downrange for the express purpose of removing the oil and solvent from a clean barrel so all the shots of your first group are fired through a barrel in a similar state

 

[1858rem]

generally the first shot or so out of a clean barrel that puts some fouling back in the barrel to create a more even velocity deviation from some added resistance and filling in any minor gaps or imperfections in your barrel.....my take on the idea anyhow...... but i dont know why it significantly affects accuracy in a left/right degree, i get the vertical variation part due to change in velocity.... i also have no idea how much fouling is not enough, or what is too much, untill accuracy drops off anyhow then i know for sure!

 

[1858rem]

krochus made it simpler i think...

 

[R.W.Dale]

but i dont know why it significantly affects accuracy in a left/right degree,

Changes in Barrel harmonics will sometimes do strange things and sometimes nothing at all.

 

[interlock]

i wonder if rifles that perform better with the clean barrel are ones that have had the bores broken in and the rifles that need a few shots to get thier accuracy back after a clean are ones that have not been broken in? not that there is anything wrong with either route.

 

[helz_mcfugly]

when you clean you bore with say hoppes #9 the next shot is your fouler shot because its getting all that hoppes out of the bore and is never accurate, some times it take 2 or 3. after that you get your accurate shots, some barrels will go 10 shots before you get copper fouling and have to clean again, and some go 50. all barrels are different but they all will have that first fouling shot right after you clean the bore.

 

[helz_mcfugly]

this should give you an idea of what you are looking for.

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/fouling.htm

 

[1858rem]

anyone here have experience cleaning for a .204? not seeing stuff for it locally and i dont have a brush/jag yet so it been about a hundred rds through it since i got it...umm apparently dry patches actually dont do anythin so i guess it is time to clean that one too(a good clean)!!..still shootin 1"@100 yd so it may not be time yet

 

[USSR]

what is a fouling shot?
well.... more specifically,
if you clean your barrel spotless,

shoot a few rounds to foul the barrel,

shoot off a group,

and run a dry patch down the bore before your next group, do you still need to shoot a fouling round off?

is a single dry patch enough cleaning you really need to fire off another fouling round?....sorry to ask but recently resolved my rifle problems and can start developing a load, but have VERY thoroughly(150/200rds) diminished my supply of bullets and need to know what works and does not before i go and buy more of the same thing(because i ran out) just to find out it is no good! and cannot currently afford many fouling shots

Myth? Hardly. As krochus pointed out, anybody who has done any amount of load development using a chronograph, will notice the 1st shot from a clean bore being lower in velocity than the rest of the string. Also, in many rifles the first shot out of a clean bore is away from the group formed by successive shots. So, what is it that the powder fouling enters into the equation? Graphite. Smokeless powders are treated with graphite to eliminate static electricity. And as everyone knows, graphite tends to smooth up contact surfaces.

1858rem,

Why do you feel you need to dry swab your bore between groups? When we are shooting in F Class competition, we are shooting anywhere's from 50 to 60 rounds without any cleaning whatsoever. But to answer your question, a single pass with a dry patch would not require another fouling shot.

Don

 

[1858rem]

Why do you feel you need to dry swab your bore between groups? When we are shooting in F Class competition, we are shooting anywhere's from 50 to 60 rounds without any cleaning whatsoever. But to answer your question, a single pass with a dry patch would not require another fouling shot.

wow, excellent answer, thanks much. i guess i dont have to worry now since i dont have 50 bullets left!!!

 

[interlock]

yes, it's been a good thread. I have learned some stuff on here.

 

[gdcpony]

I think foulers are firearm dependent. Much like 2 identical rifles might like different loads, different guns will react differently to a clean bore. I had a Mauser in .243 that I could clean, oil, put away for a week (all I ever left it sit) and it would come out and shoot every round dead on. My Howa 1500 in .223 was the same. By the same token my Mauser .257Roberts will throw it's first round just a touch high , by round three it's on. My .22's have all needed foulers save a Buckmark rifle. My shotgun (my first as I finally found one that impressed me) also needs a fouler. I left it uncleaned though gun season here (OH).
It's late here so I'll post up these pics for you. I have some more, but the wife has been at the computer playing with pictures again, and I can't find em. Clean bore H&R Ultraslugger Thumbhole in 20ga at 100yds. Yes, it will repeat the same, including the fouler which it always puts low and left.

 

[270WSMANIC]

For many the 1" or so off out of a clean oiled bore seems not to amount to much for hunting purposes. Lets say though that the 1" or so is at 300yds the 1" or so just became 3"+ or so. For the sake of argurment lets say 3.5 low left, now because of a somewhat unsteady feald position we wobble off 3" low left; we now have a missed or worse a crippled deer.
On the other side of the coin the 3" wobble might improve the shot that is untill we factor in ( Murphys law ). IMHO the closer we can get the first shot to point of aim the better off we are. MY solution normally is to not clean the barrel after final sight in and not pay to much attention to the first group out of a clean barrel eccept to note how far out of it the first shot goes.