Best way to store "fouled" barrel?

[Flynt]

I like to deep clean the bores of my centerfire rifles and then fire a fouling shot or a couple more rounds at most to check zero. Then I put them in the safe, where they may stay for a few months. I don't like the idea of leaving those beautiful bores unprotected from moisture for extended periods. Can I leave a coat of oil in them without undoing the benefits of the fouling shots? Will the oil, even if I clean it out with a dry patch, affect the first shot on a hunt?

 

[MrSpiffy]

Oil will certainly protect the metal from oxidation (rust). Swabbing a couple of dry patches to clean it before hunting should clean it sufficiently to react like a freshly-cleaned barrel. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Shoot it. Clean it. Oil it. Swab it before shooting again, if you feel the need. I doubt you'll see much difference at shorter ranges (100yds or so).

 

[Geno]

You need to read the Krieger website regarding barrel break-in. A rifle that becomes more accurate post-fouling shots, does so, because has not been properly broken-in.

The first shot (in my rifles), from a cold, clean, dry bore is always on-target, no fouling needed. The beauty is, I can shoot all I want, clean it, oil it and store it. When I'm ready to shoot/hunt, I simply clean my bore with a cloth to remove the oil, and I am absolutely dead-on.

If you have to add oil, then remove the oil etc, your barrel is not properly broken-in. Warning: within minutes, someone will come along and tell you I'm nuts. I don't deny that fact...trust me, I AM nuts! But, I know what I'm talking about, and so does Kreiger.

Geno

 

[Geckgo]

Geno is nuts

 

[Motega]

I too don't believe in the 'fouling shot' Unless yoi are one of the litersally 100 people in the world capable of shooting a 300 yard group where 1/2 of your shots are going almost perfectly htrough the previous holes, shoot, give it as respectable swabs down the barrel, wipe off the fingerprints, and put it away. Maybe once every 5-10 trips my guns get broen down and I clean the actions and as much as I can get with a toothbrush and maybe 1 every 50 trips I break it down as much as I'm comfortable tkaing it apart and really give it a good cleaning.

My dad is horrible about cleaning most of his stuff. He has been shooting 50 years. He shoots everything from handguns to shotguns to rifles and I don't see any issues with his guns other than they give me anxiety with the amount of schmutz they carry around. We overthink things ... By the way he is also winning pistol competitions with his dirty methods so it can't be that bad.

 

[Geckgo]

How well does your gun "keep zero" when you fire it those couple of times?

Wouldn't you rather those shots went into a deer's heart?

 

[Flynt]

You need to read the Krieger website regarding barrel break-in. A rifle that becomes more accurate post-fouling shots, does so, because has not been properly broken-in.

Geno, even if you're crazy, that makes a lot of sense. I did follow a breakin regimen, but I must not have done a good job because after 9 rounds of so, I still get a beautiful blue tint on my patches after soaking in Outers.

 

[Flynt]

How well does your gun "keep zero" when you fire it those couple of times?

Last time out I fired one fouling shot, just into the berm, before setting up my target. After the barrel cooled, I shot two rounds in earnest. I shot once, hitting exactly where I had it zeroed (1.5" high @ 100 yds.). I then piddled around with other rifles for a while and came back to the gun in question. Fired one more from cold barrel, and it was touching # 1. Decided to quit while ahead. My concern is whether residual oil on bore, even after running dry patches before hunt, will affect characterstics of bore and PoI. Thanks.

 

[ghostwriter]

@ Flynt:
Honestly brother, there's more things that will affect your accuracy a lot more than a slight oil coating swabbed out with a dry patch then shot on a 2 month stored rifle.
I have a 300 win mag that shoots a nice < .50 MOA and when I group 10 rounds inside a 3" circle at 550 yards, I must be doing something right.
Drag a boresnake thru after your day at the range and call it good. Do the same thing right before you shoot the next time. If I store my rifle more than a week I drag a very, very slightly oiled patch thru the bore once and leave it. If it helps, I'm glad but I don't know for sure that I have to. Lets me sleep better at night and my CBS are usually all inside the .5 MOA dimension when I start out the day. If I dope the wind right, the rest of the rounds will follow the first.

 

[BigN]

Here's where I am confused... Why store a fouled barrel? Clean it, put it away, and then shoot fouling shots before you shoot it again. I must be missing something here...

 

[Flynt]

Here's where I am confused... Why store a fouled barrel? Clean it, put it away, and then shoot fouling shots before you shoot it again. I must be missing something here...

I never know what situation I'll encounter. Some camps I've been to don't allow fouling or zeroing shots.

 

[Geno]

BigN:

I answered the confusing part early on. Many barrel manufacturers argue that if you need to foul the barrel to get it accurate (or groups become tighter), the barrel did not have a proper breaking-in.

For what it's worth, this is one of the reasons Remington parkerizes 100% of the M700 Police rifles, including the chamber and bore. The gentleman I spoke with at Remington said that it facilitates break-in. It sure did on mine.

My reason for using this procedure is that, when firing from a cold, clean, dry barrel, I want that first bullet to fall inside of the 1" circle, and the next 2 shots to also fall in that circle. I cannot count on always taking fouling shots, and they are not needed for properly broken-in barrels, and we have now gone full-circle.

Geno

 

[mshootnit]

my dad rolled out the old 6mm Rem one day to teach me a lesson. He hadn't cleaned that bore in about 7 or 8 years. He shot a 3 shot group going very close to one inch at 200 yds with that rifle. BTW it has a 6X Weaver wide angle scope on it too. He did that over the hood of a pickup resting the rifle on an old blanket wadded up. And it taught me a lesson. You get that rifle clean and take it out shooting until you know it will hit where you want. Then you don't clean it. You don't take it apart. You take it and put it away until you need it for real. That way you know that it will hit because it hasn't been messed with at all since the last time you hit something with it. Barsness has a great article on group size and bore cleanliness. Fouled bores shoot better and he has the data to prove it.

 

[Skylerbone]

Flynt, Geno is crazy. Now click on his name and look for his previous postings. Find one with pics of a few groups he's fired. I think you'll be impressed with what a clean bore can do with the proper break in AND a great shooter.

Leaving a bore dirty for 7 or 8 years might gain an ever so slight edge in one particular test, or it could have been the shooter or the ammo or the cleaning method or any of the above factors acting together. I would pray nothing crawled down the bore and that it was immune (spent powder and all) to pitting, rust, dust and dirt.

I believe that data or some other far fetched table noted shot number 218 or so was the beginning of the best string of fire.

 

[Cosmoline]

I have to wonder if this "fouling shot" is a holdover from black powder days. With a smoke pole firing black powder, the first shot does indeed coat the bore with an initial layer of fouling and followup shots may have a slightly different point of impact. This is at least in part because when you load after the first round, the fouling helps grip the patch and make for a tighter seal. So the second shot may be more accurate than the first. And 2-6 may be closer together than the first.

I see NO relationship between this issue and modern smokeless powder rifles. For one thing there's no layer of soot left behind by smokeless. There may be a trace of copper and a bit of debris, but that's it. It's not going to make enough difference to matter. If it does then something is off kilter.

 

[jmr40]

More barrels have been ruined by over cleaning or improper cleaning than shooting. With modern barrels you don't need to clean your barrel nearly as often as some guys think. Most barrels shoort much better after having SEVERAL rounds fired through them after a cleaning.

I'm a hunter, not a target shooter. I spend time during the summer testing different loads and won't touch my barrel until accuracy starts falling off. It could be several hundred rounds before this happens. I've never noticed that the first shot from a clean bore had a different point of impact, but group size is much better after 10-15 shots.

I'll clean my barrels thoroughly a couple of weeks before hunting season then fire several groups through the barrel. I don't touch it for 4-5 months until hunting season ends unless I end up hunting in the rain. Then it then it gets a bore snake. The barrels get another thoroughly cleaning and then a few more shots, before being put up till next summer.

I've been doing this for nearly 40 years now with no rust, no accuracy problems. I don't own a bolt rifle that won't shoot sub MOA and none have lost a bot of accuracy since I bought them.

 

[Skylerbone]

You guys know all Southern Hemisphere toilets swirl in the opposite direction as the ones here in the States, right;-). In fact, if you're on the equator (or France) and you flush the water will shoot straight up in the air!

I don't have the equipment or skills of a benchrest shooter but I do know that I've yet to take a fouling shot with any rifle I own and POA has always been POI near as the dead animal can tell.

My shotguns always get fouling shots as far as my hunting buddies know, sometimes taken between harvesting ducks and geese. I have to announce them so everyone knows I didn't just miss.

 

[Flynt]

When I refer to "fouling," I'm emphasizing copper deposits. In my experience, which is a lot more limited than a lot of guys here, some barrels attract copper like magnets. On one you could see a solid deposit of copper in the grooves. They looked like the surface of a penny. I'm certainly willing to accept the argument that I didn't do a good job of breaking in the barrels or any other proposition, but I've seen it happen, and it affected my groups. I think it's more prevalent in hot rounds and magums. I have a couple of magnums that are prone to this, including the Vanguard Sub-MoA 300WSM I mentioned. It bleeds blue after a few rounds and cleaning with Outers foam. I also have some 30-30's that broke in after eight or 10 rounds and quit collecting copper thereafter.

 

[x_wrench]

on the rare ocasion that i HAVE to put a firearm away dirty (and sometimes i do have to), i will as soon as possible get it out and clean it properly. if i knew i had to put one away for several weeks before i could get back to it, then i would run an oily patch through the barrel several times, wipe it down with oil, and put it away. but it would get properly cleaned before the next outing. to me, a dirty firearm, is like a dirty diaper. it is no good to anyone, for any reason. life is messy, clean it up!

 

[Smith357]

The only rifles I store with a fouled bore are my .22 target rifles. High end .22lr target ammo like Eley and RWS has a lot of wax lube that protects the bore for short term storage, a week or two. I do clean the action and the chamber before they get put up but leave the bore and the muzzle dirty. They get thoroughly cleaned during the off season requiring a good 10-20 fouling shots to settle them in before the next competition. If I change ammo they also need to be refouled with the residue from the new ammo which takes about 10-20 shots. .22lr is a bit of a different breed than high power.

My high powered lightweight hunting rifles are all zeroed with a cold clean barrel so the first shot is on target, the zero only changes when the thin sporter barrels get warm after 4-5 rapid shots.

 

[Slamfire]

I fire a couple of fouling shots on the berm everytime I start small bore. I clean my Anschutz barrel, probably complusive behavior, after each match. I have seen the wild shots at 50 yards till the barrel is fouled.

For centerfire, I think round count is something that is not being acknowledged. I am on my third M1a barrel, with that rifle and a clean barrel, I can see the elevation change as I shoot standing SF 200 yards. I have deep cleaned, chemical and JB bore paste, and seen radical changes in elevation as the barrel fouled. The barrel is throating a three when this happens, and this reinforces my belief that it is time to get a new barrel.

Last bolt rifle I rebarreled, with a new Krieger barrel, first shot out of a clean barrel at 600 yards was where it should have been. I used the sight settings from the previous match, expected a zero change till it fouled, but it was spot on.

I don't break in barrels, I shoot them.

So, I don't know what to say or do. I think you just have to shoot your barrel from a clean bore and see if the point of impact is way off. With more rounds, if it walks it way to the former zero, then you have an issue for a hunting rifle.

 

[gamestalker]

Every firearm I own and have owned over the last 40 some yrs. has been cleaned after shooting, and with no ill effects. I'm maticulous about keeping them clean, and have yet to need a foul shot to put the first group nicely together at 200 yds. I'm sure a guy could damage his barrel if using the wrong cleaning methods, no doubt. But taking your time and using the right rod, solvents, and bore brush and swabs will only protect the bore from erosion in my opinion.
I am also a firm believer in proper break in too. My break in involves plenty of low velocity jacketed through it in 5 shot intervals, with good cool down between intervals. I like to put a good 100 rounds through it, with a good cleaning every 20 rounds. If it groups nicely with my high velocity stuff after that, I'm done. If not, I lap and return to break in process for another 100 rds.. The exception was a Douglas on a M98 action in 7mm rem. mag. that took over 400 rounds, and a button lapping job to get tight. I don't use Douglas barrels any more!

 

[Rokman]

I clean my barrels after shooting for extended storage and I do like to shoot a fouling shot or two if I get a chance when going hunting. It seems to me that a deeply cleaned or heavily oiled barrel is probably not what you want for a hunt. If you can't shoot it, clean out the oil with a patch and go on. That's what I do, but my shots at deer aren't that far and it probably didn't make a difference to the deer.

 

[tkcomer]

About the only guns I clean after I get done shooting are the ones I shoot with corrosive ammo. Why scrub a barrel clean and then waste ammo shooting fouling shots? If you do a little searching, you'll find the myth of scrubbing barrels clean. And that most aftermarket barrel makers say, off the record of course, they include break-in procedures because their customers demand it. That actually, the barrels need no breaking in. Of course if you have a rough barrel, cleaning won't help it. It needs abrasives to smooth that up. And some barrels won't shoot straight no matter what you do. I've seen too many tests that show barrel cleaning didn't make a difference. Funny thing is, I've never seen tests that proves barrel cleaning improves accuracy.

 

[Mr_Pale_Horse]

In a cool dry place.

The only guns I clean after shooting use Goex BP.

The worst thing you can do with your run of the mill hunting rifle is shoot it a dozen or so times a year and clean the snot out of it after every shoot/hunt. You will do more damage to the crown and throat cleaning it, than properly storing it fouled ever will.

Wipe down the outside with a rust preventative, and put it in the safe or other cool dry place.