Legionnaire
Contributing Member
As in the title, what is the purpose of a two-stage trigger? I understand the difference between a single-stage and a two-stage trigger--I am just unclear regarding any advantage provided by the latter.
What is the purpose/advantage of a two-stage trigger?
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Taurus 617 CCW
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I guess ad it goes with triggers, it feels different than other triggers. I happen to like the feel of the Rock River Arms national match 2 stage trigger. Makes cheap single stage triggers feel, well cheap.
mcb
Member
Your finger goes on the trigger and you start to pull and when you feel the "wall" of the second stage you know the rifle is about to fire with only a modest increase in trigger pressure and minimal trigger motion. For long range shooting I, and many other shooter prefer the two stage trigger. For my blaster rifle I like a good crisp single stage, many believe you can running it a bit faster for close range shooting. It is very much a personal preference there are plenty of long range shooters that like a single stage trigger and a few "freaks" 
that like a two stage trigger for close range fast blasting.
that like a two stage trigger for close range fast blasting.
I think that it's a military rifle thing. I'm just guessing here, but I'd say it allows for a heavier pull to minimize negligent discharges during the excitement of battle, but still allows for a reasonable second stage pull weight for accurate shooting when things are calmer.
It's something that you have to get used to but is addicting when you do. The better adjustable AR15 triggers, such as Geissele, allow adjustment of both stages. So for example, considering the NRA/CMP Service Rifle requirement of a 4.5# trigger, you can adjust for a 3.5# first stage and a 1# second. You can't go too low with the second because you need a stop that you can feel, especially when doing rapid fire stages, or you'll pull right through it.
It's something that you have to get used to but is addicting when you do. The better adjustable AR15 triggers, such as Geissele, allow adjustment of both stages. So for example, considering the NRA/CMP Service Rifle requirement of a 4.5# trigger, you can adjust for a 3.5# first stage and a 1# second. You can't go too low with the second because you need a stop that you can feel, especially when doing rapid fire stages, or you'll pull right through it.
Chuck R.
Member
Your finger goes on the trigger and you start to pull and when you feel the "wall" of the second stage you know the rifle is about to fire with only a modest increase in trigger pressure and minimal trigger motion. For long range shooting I, and many other shooter prefer the two stage trigger. For my blaster rifle I like a good crisp single stage, many believe you can running it a bit faster for close range shooting. It is very much a personal preference there are plenty of long range shooters that like a single stage trigger and a few "freaks"
My rationale exactly. It also lets me use a lighter than normal trigger for that particular use, and still maintain a safety margin as I can feel the 1st stage. I also like them on hunting guns when available, it provides a "tactile" feel when my finger's cold.
My 3Gun AR15 also has a 2 stage trigger (Geiselle SSA-E) for the same reason. For the close it TGTs I simple "pull through" the 1st stage, and after that I'm only coming off the trigger to the reset point. So the 2 stage is really for the initial shot, and follow on initial shots (think movement and coming off the trigger completely between firing positions) For the precision shots I prep to the break utilizing the 2 stage functionality.
Also the reason I like the HK LEM trigger and the Walther PPQ trigger on handguns, in their own way, they're sort of like a 2-stage.
The PPQ triger isn't a "sort of like" a two stage trigger, it is a two stage trigger.
The purpose of the two stage trigger is safety. A two stage trigger has a long sear engagement to prevent the rifle from firing if dropped, handled roughly or is caught in an explosion. A trigger with very short sear engagement, such as on a bolt action sporting rifle, is more likely to bounce and drop the striker or hammer. A discharge from a dropped manually operated firearm is dangerous enough. One shot and it's done. But the same with a self loading firearm has the potential for multiple shots to be fired.
A single stage trigger with a long sear engagement has a lot of travel, or what trigger snobs call creep. The modern term is "pre-ignition travel" (which is all too often shortened to "pre-travel" a term that makes no sense. "Pre-travel" means "before travel" or "before movement). The standard civilian AR trigger is of this type.
To reduce the (real or imagined) negative impact on marksmanship a trigger with long travel has, the two stage trigger was developed. The first stage is light and this is where most of the sear travel is. Just before the sear breaks, the trigger is designed with a sharp increase in pull weight. If a graph were drawn showing travel and pull weight, there would be level plateau of a couple pound or so, then a sharp rise in pull weight, a very short bit of travel, then a sudden drop of when the trigger broke. Ideally, the sudden rise in pul weight would be a vertical spike.
A standard semi-auto AR trigger is a single stage with a lot of travel. If its pull were drawn on a graph, it would show a level weight of pull over a long (for a trigger) travel until the sear breaks. When the sear breaks, weight suddenly drops.
The Gieselle two stage is designed that just before the sear breaks, the hook on the back of the hammer that stops hammer follow contacts the sear of the disconnect, thereby increasing pull weight. Simple, really. (The reset of the G trigger isn't any shorter than the standard AR trigger. It fools our finger into thinking it is. For an AR two stage with a shorter reset, like that found on a Garand or M14 trigger, try a KAC two stage.)
The advantage of a two stage trigger in an AR (or Garand or M14) is the combination of a long sear engagement for safety and a crisp break for the marksman. While a Geiselle SSA-E isn't as clean as a well tuned Timney or Jewell trigger in a bolt action rifle, it's amazing compared to a standard AR trigger.
The purpose of the two stage trigger is safety. A two stage trigger has a long sear engagement to prevent the rifle from firing if dropped, handled roughly or is caught in an explosion. A trigger with very short sear engagement, such as on a bolt action sporting rifle, is more likely to bounce and drop the striker or hammer. A discharge from a dropped manually operated firearm is dangerous enough. One shot and it's done. But the same with a self loading firearm has the potential for multiple shots to be fired.
A single stage trigger with a long sear engagement has a lot of travel, or what trigger snobs call creep. The modern term is "pre-ignition travel" (which is all too often shortened to "pre-travel" a term that makes no sense. "Pre-travel" means "before travel" or "before movement). The standard civilian AR trigger is of this type.
To reduce the (real or imagined) negative impact on marksmanship a trigger with long travel has, the two stage trigger was developed. The first stage is light and this is where most of the sear travel is. Just before the sear breaks, the trigger is designed with a sharp increase in pull weight. If a graph were drawn showing travel and pull weight, there would be level plateau of a couple pound or so, then a sharp rise in pull weight, a very short bit of travel, then a sudden drop of when the trigger broke. Ideally, the sudden rise in pul weight would be a vertical spike.
A standard semi-auto AR trigger is a single stage with a lot of travel. If its pull were drawn on a graph, it would show a level weight of pull over a long (for a trigger) travel until the sear breaks. When the sear breaks, weight suddenly drops.
The Gieselle two stage is designed that just before the sear breaks, the hook on the back of the hammer that stops hammer follow contacts the sear of the disconnect, thereby increasing pull weight. Simple, really. (The reset of the G trigger isn't any shorter than the standard AR trigger. It fools our finger into thinking it is. For an AR two stage with a shorter reset, like that found on a Garand or M14 trigger, try a KAC two stage.)
The advantage of a two stage trigger in an AR (or Garand or M14) is the combination of a long sear engagement for safety and a crisp break for the marksman. While a Geiselle SSA-E isn't as clean as a well tuned Timney or Jewell trigger in a bolt action rifle, it's amazing compared to a standard AR trigger.
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OP
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Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Makes sense; thank you.
Another way to look at it, the total trigger pull is a larger, safer number. But, with the first stage, you take up a portion of the trigger pull, then, after the "stop", you have a lighter pull to fire the rifle.
For example, Service Rifle competition requires (or at least required in the past) a 4.5 pound trigger pull. With a two stage trigger, you take up a portion of the trigger pull with the first stage and then the final let off is less than with a single stage trigger. It allows for more careful gun control with a lower chance of upsetting the gun upon firing. But, the total trigger pull meets the rules requirement.
Fast action games would benefit from a single stage as rapid shots are more frequent.
Once I discovered two stage triggers, I prefer them for most of my rifle shooting. I'll agree that some folks may prefer single stage triggers.
For example, Service Rifle competition requires (or at least required in the past) a 4.5 pound trigger pull. With a two stage trigger, you take up a portion of the trigger pull with the first stage and then the final let off is less than with a single stage trigger. It allows for more careful gun control with a lower chance of upsetting the gun upon firing. But, the total trigger pull meets the rules requirement.
Fast action games would benefit from a single stage as rapid shots are more frequent.
Once I discovered two stage triggers, I prefer them for most of my rifle shooting. I'll agree that some folks may prefer single stage triggers.
Your finger goes on the trigger and you start to pull and when you feel the "wall" of the second stage you know the rifle is about to fire with only a modest increase in trigger pressure and minimal trigger motion. For long range shooting I, and many other shooter prefer the two stage trigger. For my blaster rifle I like a good crisp single stage, many believe you can running it a bit faster for close range shooting. It is very much a personal preference there are plenty of long range shooters that like a single stage trigger and a few "freaks"
I'm one of them that prefers a 2 stage for precision shooing and a single stage for faster close range shooting. I have been happy with the Larue MBT 2S two stage triggers especially for the price.
Varminterror
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I would comment - in addition to @MistWolf ’s design description above - that not all two stage triggers share the same design philosophy for application.
You’ll commonly see two camps (or 3-ish) of two-stage triggers, largely designed for two different purposes - precision shooting vs. tactical shooting. One camp has a light take-up (first stage, slack) with a heavy break (second stage), whereas the other camp has a heavier take-up with a light break. The 3rd camp, personally I lump in with the first - triggers with roughly the same weight for each stage - call it “1B”.
1) Light/Heavy: A Savage accutrigger or the Glock/striker pistol trigger block safety are familiar proxies for most people to the latter camp. The first stage is light so a shooter can get their finger on the trigger with increased safety, and then hold against a heavier wall to deliver the break. The Rock River NM and Varmint triggers are an example of this - 1/2lb slack plus a 4-4.5 or 3-3.5lb second stage, respectively. So the shooter gets their finger on the trigger and takes up slack, but basically the trigger feels like a single stage. You are kinda just pushing the first stage out of the way, pushing it up against a wall, before you run into the actual trigger. Personally, I consider this effectively equivalent to a single stage, but with added (unnecessary) safety, by increased sear engagement and pretravel (creep). Such, I personally consider these “tactical 2 stage triggers,” meaning they offer increased security and increased feedback for trigger sensation to a shooter with other things on their mind - but they really don’t offer additional stability during the break, as the second stage break weight is basically the same as a single stage break could have been, with less take-up.
1B) Mid/Mid: Triggers like the Larue MBT-2s are effectively balanced. You’re still going to run into a fairly heavy second stage wall, but the first stage is heavier getting there. Your finger can find the trigger and start a trigger press, but it’s still running into a pretty heavy wall. Lighter than 1A, but still heavy enough to feel more like 1A than 2, and heavy enough to fit the 1A applications better than class 2 applications.
2) Heavy/Light: These triggers have a much lighter “wall,” such some inexperienced shooters who are not familiar with this type will often not even realize it’s a two stage, and simply slap these triggers like a single stage with long travel. These feel more like roller skating, then bouncing over the wall like a small seam in the road; just a slight blip in the otherwise smooth travel. Examples in this class are the Geissele triggers, or the old Bushmaster NM 2 stage. I personally consider these to be “precision 2 stage triggers,” as when shooting these triggers, most of the potential to influence the rifle with the trigger stroke has happened and recovered before a very light, crisp break. I don’t tend to hold these against the wall, certainly not very long at least - a smooth stroke against the heavy first stage as I slow the wobble, cut my breath as I find the wall, and break the shot, squeeze, breath, release... When shooting under stress or rapid fire, a shooter might not even notice the second stage because their dexterity is reduced and the sensation simply isn’t sufficient.
I personally prefer the latter group, heavy/light. I do more precision shooting than anything, and when I’m hunting under stressed time - like shooting hogs on the run - and I’ll make fast trigger pulls, I prefer having the heavier first stage to stabilize my pull instead of always feeling like I should have my finger taking slack out of my trigger any time I have my rifle shouldered to be ready for a quick break. I have a bunch of RRA 2 stage triggers because they are inexpensive, and I do manipulate the springs to become more balanced, adding weight to the front end and reducing the second stage, but I strongly prefer the second class to the first. Geissele and Bushmaster 2 stage triggers for me, please and thank you!
You’ll commonly see two camps (or 3-ish) of two-stage triggers, largely designed for two different purposes - precision shooting vs. tactical shooting. One camp has a light take-up (first stage, slack) with a heavy break (second stage), whereas the other camp has a heavier take-up with a light break. The 3rd camp, personally I lump in with the first - triggers with roughly the same weight for each stage - call it “1B”.
1) Light/Heavy: A Savage accutrigger or the Glock/striker pistol trigger block safety are familiar proxies for most people to the latter camp. The first stage is light so a shooter can get their finger on the trigger with increased safety, and then hold against a heavier wall to deliver the break. The Rock River NM and Varmint triggers are an example of this - 1/2lb slack plus a 4-4.5 or 3-3.5lb second stage, respectively. So the shooter gets their finger on the trigger and takes up slack, but basically the trigger feels like a single stage. You are kinda just pushing the first stage out of the way, pushing it up against a wall, before you run into the actual trigger. Personally, I consider this effectively equivalent to a single stage, but with added (unnecessary) safety, by increased sear engagement and pretravel (creep). Such, I personally consider these “tactical 2 stage triggers,” meaning they offer increased security and increased feedback for trigger sensation to a shooter with other things on their mind - but they really don’t offer additional stability during the break, as the second stage break weight is basically the same as a single stage break could have been, with less take-up.
1B) Mid/Mid: Triggers like the Larue MBT-2s are effectively balanced. You’re still going to run into a fairly heavy second stage wall, but the first stage is heavier getting there. Your finger can find the trigger and start a trigger press, but it’s still running into a pretty heavy wall. Lighter than 1A, but still heavy enough to feel more like 1A than 2, and heavy enough to fit the 1A applications better than class 2 applications.
2) Heavy/Light: These triggers have a much lighter “wall,” such some inexperienced shooters who are not familiar with this type will often not even realize it’s a two stage, and simply slap these triggers like a single stage with long travel. These feel more like roller skating, then bouncing over the wall like a small seam in the road; just a slight blip in the otherwise smooth travel. Examples in this class are the Geissele triggers, or the old Bushmaster NM 2 stage. I personally consider these to be “precision 2 stage triggers,” as when shooting these triggers, most of the potential to influence the rifle with the trigger stroke has happened and recovered before a very light, crisp break. I don’t tend to hold these against the wall, certainly not very long at least - a smooth stroke against the heavy first stage as I slow the wobble, cut my breath as I find the wall, and break the shot, squeeze, breath, release... When shooting under stress or rapid fire, a shooter might not even notice the second stage because their dexterity is reduced and the sensation simply isn’t sufficient.
I personally prefer the latter group, heavy/light. I do more precision shooting than anything, and when I’m hunting under stressed time - like shooting hogs on the run - and I’ll make fast trigger pulls, I prefer having the heavier first stage to stabilize my pull instead of always feeling like I should have my finger taking slack out of my trigger any time I have my rifle shouldered to be ready for a quick break. I have a bunch of RRA 2 stage triggers because they are inexpensive, and I do manipulate the springs to become more balanced, adding weight to the front end and reducing the second stage, but I strongly prefer the second class to the first. Geissele and Bushmaster 2 stage triggers for me, please and thank you!
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Legionnaire
Contributing Member
Thanks much for the detailed explanation. Your reference to the Savage accutrigger is helpful, although the accutrigger would be the first thing to go if I ever bought a Savage; I really don't like the thing. I need some time on a good two-stage trigger to see if I can get a feel for it, and then, whether or not I like it. At this stage, I'm very content with the single-stage triggers on my bolt actions.
Dave DeLaurant
Member
FWIW, I look at a good military two-stage as conceptually akin to a set trigger, albeit a heavy one. The first stage take-up is analogous to the set. The ideal two-stage has a definite stop at the end of the first stage take-up, followed by minimal travel to the break on the second.
A far simpler system mechanically than a set trigger and a lengthy take-up provides a greater degree of safety with a novice shooter.
I'm not too fussy about trigger types -- I love the single set triggers on my CZ 527s and the single stage Timney triggers on three of my Mauser sporters. I thought about installing a Timney on my G98 Wehrmann target rifle, but when I investigated the original rules for Wehrsport shooting they specified original triggers only. After a little practice I think I reached the point where shoot its two-stage military trigger about as well as I would a Timney -- it has a very crisp break.
A far simpler system mechanically than a set trigger and a lengthy take-up provides a greater degree of safety with a novice shooter.
I'm not too fussy about trigger types -- I love the single set triggers on my CZ 527s and the single stage Timney triggers on three of my Mauser sporters. I thought about installing a Timney on my G98 Wehrmann target rifle, but when I investigated the original rules for Wehrsport shooting they specified original triggers only. After a little practice I think I reached the point where shoot its two-stage military trigger about as well as I would a Timney -- it has a very crisp break.
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David Hoback
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Wouldn’t say one has any advantages over the other. Simply different strokes for different folks. Some prefer a sub 1lb, 1-stage trigger. Others like 2-stage. And more still prefer either 1 or 2 stage “Set” trigger. (I’m not one of them). Now we have the Binary fad!
I prefer 2-stage on bolt action rifles. Although I’ve always done my own trigger jobs because I refuse to spend the money on the aftermarket triggers. Reason I’ve always liked the Accutrigger. Not a TRUE 2-stage, but very similar in function. My custom modded & tuned Accutriggers are about as nice as anything you can buy for $300! I don’t really have a preference on my ARs. But I prefer them being a bit heavier. I’m not a fan of an ultra light AR trigger, used as a battle rifle. I prefer mine having a 5-6lb pull. What’s more important to me, is the “feel” of the trigger. A Gunsmith who truly understands Trigger Tech knows the importance. Most people think it’s about pull weight alone. I’ve shown several people a 4.5lb trigger I set up on one of the 1911s I’ve built, and they swear it’s 1.5lb pull. Smooth pull, ZERO creep and glass like break has a way of “fooling” your trigger fingers mind.
I prefer 2-stage on bolt action rifles. Although I’ve always done my own trigger jobs because I refuse to spend the money on the aftermarket triggers. Reason I’ve always liked the Accutrigger. Not a TRUE 2-stage, but very similar in function. My custom modded & tuned Accutriggers are about as nice as anything you can buy for $300! I don’t really have a preference on my ARs. But I prefer them being a bit heavier. I’m not a fan of an ultra light AR trigger, used as a battle rifle. I prefer mine having a 5-6lb pull. What’s more important to me, is the “feel” of the trigger. A Gunsmith who truly understands Trigger Tech knows the importance. Most people think it’s about pull weight alone. I’ve shown several people a 4.5lb trigger I set up on one of the 1911s I’ve built, and they swear it’s 1.5lb pull. Smooth pull, ZERO creep and glass like break has a way of “fooling” your trigger fingers mind.
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