What is this gentleman carrying

[elhombreconnonombre]

Several years ago I posted this pic of my gggpaw circa 1850-1865 on thus forum. Given that we have no doubt grown in membership since then, I thought I would post it again with the burning question:

What open top revolver is he carrying? Remember, this is a reverse image as was the technology at that time.

Ronnie

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

hard to tell... its huge, though.

That suggests to me either a walker or dragoon, right?

length forward of the cylinder i am leaning towards Walker.

 

[Malamute]

Hmm, looks like a '51 type Navy Colt to me.

 

[J-Bar]

It may be a photographer's prop gun, a collection of mixed parts.

The absence of a loading lever latch under the barrel argues for a Walker or Dragoon, but to me the cylinder looks too small for either of those. The barrel appears more streamlined as it nears the cylinder face much like an 1860 Army, where the 1851 is more square shaped, but something about the rammer doesn't look quite right, like it's out of the frame.

I am NOT an expert on the Colt copies so it may be one of those, but until it is definitely identified, I'm going with a photo prop gun.

 

[Fingers McGee]

At first glance, It cold be a Walker; but cylinder is too short and trigger guard is round - not square - backed; which means it could be a 3rd model dragoon; but, again, cylinder is too short. Can't be an 1860 Army because the loading lever is hinged - not creeping. The barrel appears to be round - rather than octagonal - which would eliminate the 1851 Navy. That only leaves one of the Confederate made '51 Navy knockoffs. Since the subject has that Southern Rebel Guerilla look to him, I'll go with either a Griswold and Gunnison or a Leech and Rigdon.

 

[expat_alaska]

IMO:

That is one handsome (for the period) unreconstructed rebel. I really like that picture, especially if it your GGGpaw. You had better make copies of that because it is irreplaceable.

I have taken liberties to reverse the photo image and to enlarge it a bit.



#1) It is not a Walker: the cylinder is too short and there is too much cylinder gap between the cylinder and the barrel frame lug. The load lever is not a pointed Walker and appears to engage a barrel catch. The trigger guard appears to be rounded at the rear, and all manner of Walkers (Whitneyville and others) have a squareback trigger guard. All Walkers had the wedge entering from the right side of the pistol.

#2) IMO, although the photo is very poor, it appears to be a 3rd model Dragoon .44. It appears to have a round to octagon barrel juncture, a round trigger guard, and the proper spacing between the cylinder and the barrel lug.

#3) The barrel wedge appears to be huge and in the white. I do not think that during the War that some wedges were not lost, and this may be a handmade wedge from convenient piece of steel. If so, very good campfire craftsmanship.

#4) I think it to be too small for a Colt (or copy) 1851 Navy. The soldier in the pic has big mitts which would swallow an 1851. He is also left-handed.

#5) It also appears that the cylinder stop slot has a round/oval shape so that brings about another Q that another poster posited: is this a prop gun just for photographic purposes? If so, this pistol may not even fire and may just be a prop.

I would cherish that photograph and keep the original as safe as possible.

Thanks for posting. We are all enriched by that photo. I am a Civil War buff, and do not take sides insofar as why it was fought. To me, it is a study about how modern technology at the time overrode Napoleonic tactics and changed the face of war forever.

Jim

 

[canaris]

It could be a Leech & Rigdon

 

[expat_alaska]

Very good observation, sir, but I think it is too small. Leech and Rigdon and Rigdon and Ainsley did not produce many guns, and that may be a long shot.

Good food for speculation. Yours is as good as mine!

Regards,

Jim

 

[yugorpk]

Definitely not a walker. Those were very uncommon for one thing. Keep in mind the average civil war soldier was 5'8" tall. Diseases and poor childhood nutrition made common folk very short by modern standards. The gun looks big in his hands but I think he's smaller than you think he is.

Looks like a '51 colt to me but there were a lot of off brands back then that looked a lot like '51 colts.

 

[expat_alaska]

Delete. Duplicate post.

 

[canaris]

It also appears that the gun's hammer is resting on a safety notch - you can see the unique position of the nipple slot on the cylinder. It is almost in the middle and you can only see one clearly. Whereas if it was resting on a chamber two slots would be more visible. Most likely this weapon was real and fully loaded.

 

[CaptTripps]

What is up with the front sight? To me it looks like a ramp site?

 

[72coupe]

Have you thought about taking that photo to a bona fide restorer?

 

[Old Fuff]

The Old Fuff is about to jump into hot water...

Again.

It's a Colt 1849 Pocket Model with a bullet rammer and 6 inch barrel.

Let the critics' begin.

Note: The photograph can be copied, and the copies enhanced and worked over, without endangering the original in any way.

 

[Jim K]

That picture is so bad, the gun could be darned near anything except maybe a Glock. For example, what expat-Alaska takes for the barrel wedge looks to be the rammer.

There is no way to tell how big the soldier is, and there is nothing at all to give a sense of scale. I see nothing to indicate whether he was a "Reb" or "Fed", or even that he was a soldier.

About all that can be said is that it is a percussion revolver of some kind.

Jim

 

[Malamute]

I'm somewhere in the middle. It looks clear enough to me that proportionally (using assumed barrel length of 7 1/2") it looks like a Navy size gun to me, and the barrel looks octagon to me. Most of the rest of the observations look hard to see to me, and attributable to damage to the image. Its unfortunately a poor quality pic, but thats what I see.

I have to add that I dont object in the slightest that people have posted pics of what they think it is. I'm liking all those pics also, especially the apparently original Leech and Rigdon.

 

[Old Fuff]

Jin is right in that identification is mostly based on speculation. But I am looking at:

1. The size of the oval trigger guard in relationship to the frame.

2. The length and diameter of the cylinder (Diameter too small in relationship to the length to be a "Navy" size revolver.

3. No part of the handle extending below the person's hand.

 

[Eric N.]

To me,it looks like something cobbled together. Possibly a prop gun.

 

[canaris]

Here is a test picture I took of myself for comparison


It could very well be a 1849 Colt

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

I have no idea when or where this pic was taken. Gggpaw did go to California in 1849, returning in 1851. He served in the 19th Texas Cavalry for a couple of years before being injured enough to be discharged from field duty and sent home to serve in the home guard.

From parts of his journal I get the impression that he was always carrying a revolver and/or a sawed off sxs shotgun for protection from rustlers and Indians, so a prop gun would not be needed. Gggpaws penchant for going armed is no doubt due to the prescence of Indians, rustlers, and partially due to an incident in 1856: His brother in law and a friend were sitting on the ranch house porch, a third man rode up, an argument ensued, pistols were drawn, and the brother in law and his friend were killed.
The third man disappeared...vanished. The sheriff was not notified and no "official" posse was organised, but my gggpaws journal leaves some hints that the third man received his "just rewards".

Heres a pic of him in a later time when folks in Texas were not allowed by law to carry sidearms concealed or in a belt holster unless they were on their own property. Whose that guy in the Hawaiian shirt?