What is this rifle - Kentucky/Miss/Plains

[sendarope]

I bought this at auction today and having trouble finding out what it is.

In my research I found an exact match with style, trigger and trigger guard and it looks like a Pedersoli Percussion .50 caliber Kentucky Rifle with full length walnut stock, the octagon barrel measures 38 and one half inches. However mine does not have a peep sight.
This is the one photo I found:

This one is about 95% similar to mine.

Mine has a "54" stamped into the octagonal barrel.
I found a logo that looks like a powder horn with a " M S M " pictured here:




So what is this and what is it worth?

 

[Chawbaccer]

That is the Mountain State Muzzleloading logo. They were located near Parkersburg WV and went out of business a few years ago. Cains operates from the same location now but I don't think they are connected, but may know about your rifle. I will try to remember to look up an old catalog and see if I can find your rifle. THey did make guns there in there shop and imported others and branded.

 

[jmaubin]

I ordered a catalog from them a few months back (4 or 5)
the address on the back cover shows:

RT. 2 Box 154-1 Williamstown, WV 26187
Customer Service (304) 375-7842
Fax (304) 375-3737

I can't be sure if their still open but someone did respond to My "catalog request" like I said sometime in the spring. The addy that I have bookmarked( it still works) is:http://www.msmfg.com/. Might want to see if its the one yawl are talking about.

 

[Chawbaccer]

I always knew it as Mountain State Muzzleloading, They had a shop and the manufacturing was at that location too. Cains operates the same business now and I don't see the custom guns they used to sell. I guess it is a pretty much inter connected operation.

 

[kentucky bucky]

It looks kind of like a Hatfield. The trigger is a MSM, but that doesn't mean it was made by them.

 

[sendarope]

The mystery continues

Thanks guys for some great info.

MSM is Mountain State Muzzleloading
Here is the current logo:


Here is a link to a very close representation:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0058413216596a&navCount=13&podId=0058413&parentId=cat601141&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=search_redir&catalogCode=XJ&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601141&hasJS=true

The gun is in reletively good shape. However it has seen some use. What is the most confusing is the lack of markings. There is a number stamped into the rear of the barrel where it locks into the stock. And a 15 etched into the stock and the barrel. then there is the MSM logo and finally the 54 in the barrell.

I am thinking that MSM did make this gun. The parts all fit really well. Should I continue my quest or have I uncovered the mystery?

So what is a gun like this worth?

 

[SeekHer]

Your quest is over unless you really want to know which Italian firm made the basic gun for them.

As to looking like a Hatfield, it doesn't look anything like the five that I own--three long guns and two plains models.

For the historical side, the lines are more reminiscent of an Appalachia style gun then a Kentucky although I've seen some from upstate New York that looked like that.

 

[Macmac]

The gun of the picture you found has been bubbaed for the peep site..

 

[Loyalist Dave]

That is a Pedersoli rifle, currently marketed by Cabela's as the Blue Ridge Hunter. The original rifle was a long rifle, but they modified it to be a plains style, added a peep sight, and replaced the trigger assembly. Might have been a kit that got damaged in a move, and the trigger assembly was lost as well.

If it shoots straight, it's worth whatever you can get for it. Mine was $400, but it is flintlock, and wasn't fubar'd with a rear, peep sight.

LD

 

[SeekHer]

Originally posted by Macmac
The gun of the picture you found has been bubbaed for the peep site..

It might not be a "bubba" job as a lot of companies made--and some still do, what were/are called. "Hunter" versions of their BP rifles, almost always percussion, by adding sling swivels (maybe with a sling) and a peep rear sight and maybe with a hooded front sight. Traditions, Pedersoli, Lyman come to mind.

They would maybe include all the basics needed for shooting the gun; ball, patching, powder measure, cap holder etc. and call it a “Start Up” (or some such name) package--Cabela's and Dixie Gun Works still do.

Checking through an older version of Gun Digest Gun Values there were actually quite a few that were so equipped—more then I remember…

 

[4v50 Gary]

That peep should be removed and replaced with an open blade rear sight. Move the peep to the tang where it can be an aperture for focusing the eye, not for aligning the sights. Rear aperture for eye focusing was something done in the crossbow days (see the old crossbow at the Frazier Arms Museum in Louisville).

 

[sendarope]

clarify

I noted it, but not in big letters THE TOP PHOTO IS NOT MY RIFLE. it is a photo I found that was the closest thing. I believe that the photo is a pederscolli ( spelling on that is likely off )

I am fairly certain the rifle is a Mountain States Muzzleloading brand through and through. The absence of markings is the only thing that puzzles me. It could explain why they are not making rifles anymore as they never had a solid "branding" that people would remember.

I will likely sell it.

Here is a better photo:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30259351&l=a5605&id=1110741279

 

[Chawbaccer]

I dug out an old MSM catalog from 94-95. It has a gun similar in appearance to yours called the Elk Hunter, hand made by Wilderness Rifle Works. There are a few differences, the barrel length should be 32 inches long.
One inch octogon and in 50 or 54 cal. And two different twists 1 in 24 or 1 in 66.
your trigger guard seems a bit different and also the rear sight. Your gun could also have been built using MSM parts. THey had a full supply just like the Log Cabin Shop. You might wish to contact Cains for some insight.

 

[sendarope]

A winner!

DING DING DING! A WINNER!

I received this today from the guy that made it:

Sir, what you have was called The Elk Hunter. It was made in
50 or 54 cal and available with 1 in 66 twist or 1 in 32
twist.
We had enough pieces left over to make up one 50 cal and
sold it last summer for $750.00. These were very good
shooting rifles.
These rifles were made up from the parts we had left over
after Hatfield Rifle works went out of business. We changed
a few thing from the original Hatfield as we had to get some
different parts, but it is basically the same as the
Hatfield Mountain Rifle.
I hope this is the info you were hunting for.

Sincerely;

Ed Cain

 

[Macmac]

Modern factory's sometimes bubba guns.. If they didn't flint locks might be all very good..

In this day of modern simple things like getting part right should be childs play.

The tech has been around a good long 200 + years and what do we really have to show for it?

Often times in lesser than TC and Lyman and some other pretty good clones we have junk..

Fast money never meets good quailty.

I have seen rather a lot of locks in flint that will never fire 1 round, because while the lock looks like a lock it isn't... Most of what I have seen personally have been of Spanish make.

I am something of a Traditionalist, addmittedly so, so some of what I say has to be taken with a few grains of salt.

 

[sendarope]

For Sale or trade

I don't have the patience for black powder. I have listed this rifle for sale or trade here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5145157

 

[SwearNoAllegiance]

http://www.sendarope.com

LOL.