What is this stuff in my forcing cone?

[barnfrog]

This substance builds up in my Blackhawk pretty quickly. I don't think it's lead because it's too hard to remove. The picture below is after firing only 36 rounds, all with MBC coated bullets, a dozen each with Red Dot, Universal and Unique, and then treatment with Patch-Out overnight and two soaks with Kroil and scrubbing with a .40 cal nylon bore brush with a wad of Chore-Boy wrapped on it. It is a royal pain in the rumpus. Is it powder fouling, carbon fouling, bullet coating or something else, and what impact is it likely having on my gun's performance?

 

[Col. Harrumph]

Looks like lead to me.

 

[Mk-211]

Looks like lead.

 

[Zygodactyl]

Get a Lewis Lead Remover. They have an attachment for removing lead from the forcing cone.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I don't think it's lead because it's too hard to remove.

It is definitely leading

 

[243winxb]

Its lead.
SharpShoot-R makes Patch-Out & No-Lead. Did not work for me. Metal sometimes turns to a rust color. https://sharpshootr.com/no-lead/

Hoppes Number 9 left to soak overnight or longer works best for me. A bronze brush &/or Chore-Boy. A Chamber Brush is larger in diameter, cleans more aggressively.

 

[edwardware]

That's lead, and you're about to discover the wonders of copper (non-magnetic) Chore Boy. Wrap on a worn out bore brush and scrub-a-dub-dub.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

It's lead.

If you want to make it go away, consider a Taylor Throat. It's essentially an elongated, gently angled forcing cone, similar to the throat of a rifle.

Do a search. Plenty of reading pro/con about it.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

This substance builds up in my Blackhawk pretty quickly. I don't think it's lead because it's too hard to remove. The picture below is after firing only 36 rounds, all with MBC coated bullets, a dozen each with Red Dot, Universal and Unique, and then treatment with Patch-Out overnight and two soaks with Kroil and scrubbing with a .40 cal nylon bore brush with a wad of Chore-Boy wrapped on it. It is a royal pain in the rumpus. Is it powder fouling, carbon fouling, bullet coating or something else, and what impact is it likely having on my gun's performance?
View attachment 1145332

You’re shooting MBC coated bullets and getting that much leading at the forcing cone? Something is wrong with either the bullets or the seating of them.
Shooter’s Choice lead remover has always worked well for me but you already have some good suggestions for removing the lead; the real problem is figuring out why you’re getting it in the first place.
Did you ever get a bullet remover, either a hammer or collet, so you can check to make sure the coating isn’t getting damaged during seating or crimping?

 

[Blue68f100]

It's lead.

If it's only on the bottom side I would get the cylinder alignment checked on the revolver. If it's setting low the round is not centered going into the barrel.

 

[bigpower491]

A little Chore Boy wrapped on a brush if it's stubborn

 

[barnfrog]

consider a Taylor Throat.

I will look into that. I was thinking of renting an 11° throat reamer.

the real problem is figuring out why you’re getting it in the first place.

Bingo. (Wish I could find a gif of Strother Martin spitting tobacco.) I'd rather stop it from happening instead of having to remove lead after every range session.

Did you ever get a bullet remover, either a hammer or collet, so you can check to make sure the coating isn’t getting damaged during seating or crimping?

I have both, but haven't checked yet. I should have time tonight to do so.

If it's only on the bottom side I would get the cylinder alignment checked on the revolver. If it's setting low the round is not centered going into the barrel.

Unfortunately, it does seem to affect the bottom more IIRC, but I will have to monitor that specifically to confirm.

A little Chore Boy wrapped on a brush if it's stubborn

Stubborn is an understatement. Hit it with more Kroil and some Chore-Boy on a .45 caliber brush this morning. Still couldn't get all of it out.

 

[bigpower491]

Stubborn is an understatement. Hit it with more Kroil and some Chore-Boy on a .45 caliber brush this morning. Still couldn't get all of it out.

Yea man, I know it sucks bad to deal with it, but keep plugging away. Not my favorite thing to do, either.

 

[drband]

I will look into that. I was thinking of renting an 11° throat reamer.


Bingo. (Wish I could find a gif of Strother Martin spitting tobacco.) I'd rather stop it from happening instead of having to remove lead after every range session.


I have both, but haven't checked yet. I should have time tonight to do so.

Unfortunately, it does seem to affect the bottom more IIRC, but I will have to monitor that specifically to confirm.


Stubborn is an understatement. Hit it with more Kroil and some Chore-Boy on a .45 caliber brush this morning. Still couldn't get all of it out.

You'll need a pretty good "wad" of chore boy on a brush to get it out. I usually put the cleaning rod through the barrel and then attach the brush w/ chore boy. I make the wad big enough so it will not go all the way into forcing cone but can be pulled and twisted against the residue. Seems to cut the build up well, sort of like the way a lewis lead remover works. After you are satisfied unscrew the brush, pull the rod out and finish up.

If you just put CB on the brush and push it in the muzzle end, it will not be large enough to deal with the forcing cone.

 

[mcb]

A mixture of lead and carbon fouling. As long as its not building up into the rifling you don't need to worry about it too much. Every once in a while I use a Lewis Lead Remover forcing cone cleaner to scrap it out of there.

 

[barnfrog]

You'll need a pretty good "wad" of chore boy on a brush to get it out. I usually put the cleaning rod through the barrel and then attach the brush w/ chore boy. I make the wad big enough so it will not go all the way into forcing cone but can be pulled and twisted against the residue. Seems to cut the build up well, sort of like the way a lewis lead remover works. After you are satisfied unscrew the brush, pull the rod out and finish up.

That is the way I do it.

As long as its not building up into the rifling you don't need to worry about it too much. Every once in a while I use a Lewis Lead Remover forcing cone cleaner to scrap it out of there.

That's the second part of the question that we haven't really addressed. I don't have a bore scope so I can't be sure, but given how quickly the cone leads up it seems likely the rifling is probably also getting some build up. I can definitely see some in the rifling just past the cone, but the Patch Out seems to get most of it, so maybe it'snot as heavy in the rifling as in the cone.

 

[mdi]

Yep, sometimes lead can be reallllly hard to get out of a barrel. Normally, leading at the chamber end of a barrel is from undersize bullets, but a "bad" forcing cone can add to the problem. Many good deleading methods above, Just my observation; the cone edges look pretty rough and the leading is on one side of the cone. Since I don't have the gun in my hand, I could be wrong, but something to look into.

Agree with reaming/polishing the forcing cone. I've used very fine emery cloth and a rubber "cork"/plug to polish up a cone on an old revolver...

 

[barnfrog]

Yep, sometimes lead can be reallllly hard to get out of a barrel. Normally, leading at the chamber end of a barrel is from undersize bullets, but a "bad" forcing cone can add to the problem. Many good deleading methods above, Just my observation; the cone edges look pretty rough and the leading is on one side of the cone. Since I don't have the gun in my hand, I could be wrong, but something to look into.

Agree with reaming/polishing the forcing cone. I've used very fine emery cloth and a rubber "cork"/plug to polish up a cone on an old revolver...

Before my attempts to clean it, the leading was on both sides. It just appeared to be heavy to one side because of the angle when I took the picture. As @Blue68f100 mentioned, it may be heavy to the bottom, which I will have to try to confirm. But yes, the gun is from the late 70s and the cone edges look rough to me as well. I'll have to see if I can put my hands on a small rubber stopper somewhere.

 

[.38 Special]

That's obviously plastic fouling and has destroyed the gun. Told you all so!

Okay, seriously, it could be a result of many things, and probably is a combination of several. My first thought is that the forcing cone is pretty abrupt. A Taylor throat is an interesting thing, but may be excessive. Simply recutting to a gentler radius might be just the ticket.

I'd also be taking a hard look at the throat diameter vs. bore diameter. Oversize throats can contribute. And as noted, a check with a range rod may be enlightening - but a cylinder that is too low to the bore is nearly unfixable, so does the OP really want to know?

Finally, I while I generally prefer Chore Boy or 0000 steel wool, I find that the Lewis Lead remover often is better for forcing cones, simply because of the shape.

Good luck to the OP, and let us know how it works out!

<edit> Just for what it is worth, I don't mean to dump on Taylor throating. I actually like it very much, and it kills several birds with one stone - and if the revolver ranges poorly, with the chambers low to the bore, a Taylor throat is by far the easiest solution, if the problem is not severe. The only real trouble is that it is well outside of the typical hobbyist's (me, for example) grasp. The gun really has to be sent off to to a specialist gunsmith for the treatment. Simply recutting the cone is something most of us can do, however, and the Manson tool really works. https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/revolvers/manson-reamers-forcing-cone-tools/

 

[barnfrog]

I'd also be taking a hard look at the throat diameter vs. bore diameter. Oversize throats can contribute. And as noted, a check with a range rod may be enlightening - but a cylinder that is too low to the bore is nearly unfixable, so does the OP really want to know?

This is starting to bleed into another thread about the same gun but a different issue. I have checked the throats with pin gages. A .358+ gage is the largest that will fit in four of them, and a .359- is the largest that will fit into the other two. The barrel slugged to a groove diameter of .3585" using a micrometer. So if the four smaller throats are under-sized it's by very little, and if the larger two are over-sized it's also by very little. But your comment was valid based on that information not being included in the thread so far.

 

[.38 Special]

This is starting to bleed into another thread about the same gun but a different issue. I have checked the throats with pin gages. A .358+ gage is the largest that will fit in four of them, and a .359- is the largest that will fit into the other two. The barrel slugged to a groove diameter of .3585" using a micrometer.

Ah, good. That is close to perfect and almost certainly not the issue. Were that my gun I would relieve the forcing cone and expect that to solve the problem. Good luck!

 

[.38 Special]

I am curious, by the way: how old is your gun? Some of the early Blackhawks I have played with had very steep cuts - almost a forcing "bevel" as seen a hundred years ago - and greatly benefitted from a cone recut. It's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks to me like yours may be one of those.

 

[barnfrog]

I am curious, by the way: how old is your gun? Some of the early Blackhawks I have played with had very steep cuts - almost a forcing "bevel" as seen a hundred years ago - and greatly benefitted from a cone recut. It's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks to me like yours may be one of those.

The Ruger website was not able to give me the exact year of manufacture, but was able narrow it down to the late 70s.

 

[.38 Special]

The Ruger website was not able to give me the exact year of manufacture, but was able narrow it down to the late 70s.

I think we may have the culprit.

https://4drentals.com/products/tool-rentals/revolver-forcingcone/

If nothing else, it'll clear the leading right out.

 

[barnfrog]

I think we may have the culprit.

https://4drentals.com/products/tool-rentals/revolver-forcingcone/

If nothing else, it'll clear the leading right out.

I have looked at that option. Shipping just about doubles the cost, so I have to decide whether it's worth that much. I think a gunsmith would cost less, the trade-off being a longer wait time.