What is your take on the used gun market?

[grampajack]

Have you guys used Armslist? This has been the only method to find a wide selection of guns to buy in person/FTF.
I've sold at least five.

****How does one compare the used market for a Bulgy Makarov, or Enfield #4 with a lightly-used S&W M&P 'AR'? Somebody will suggest that the value of all of these might be 20-30% less than you see elsewhere for the same condition.

They now wait like vultures for Deflation to bring most ARs down to the new standard of $550.

Without Armslist to sell or buy ten of my guns, the only Local method to sell would be to take a major loss selling to a gun shop at 'their' wholesale price. Or a guy offering you half of its value (based on 'Completed Bid' prices on GB) at a gun show.

without

I've gotten some really killer deals from armslist. I always try to talk to them on the pone before meeting up with them. You can generally get a pretty good feel for people that way. That and meeting them at a gun range makes it pretty safe, probably safer than your average craigslist deal.

Word to the wise, if you're selling on armslist don't say no to people's offers. Just tell them you need time to think about it. If you just say flat no to people some of them will get pissed and flag your listing with a TOR browser just to be vindictive. I can't tell you how many times that has happened to me. Every gun I list for sale I get tons of people wanting to trade me their M&P for my nice 1911 and get butthurt when I say no. Then all of the sudden my listing is flagged, while someone else's listing for a $150 anderson lower is still running for the third straight month in a row. So nowadays I just tell people I have several offers and need time to think about it. Nothing flagged since I adopted that policy.

 

[Alte Schule]

Of all the firearms I own I believe only five or six were bought NIB. I have a C&R license so used over 50 years is the norm although I do have certain interests, new and used, that I pursue. Went to a small gun show Saturday with just one major goal and one smaller one. I wanted a .380 ACP to replace the one I lost to my wife of 40 + years when she decided to get her license a couple of months ago and maybe a used 9 mm for the range as I sold my old Ruger P89 to a friend last year. At one of the first tables I found both. A early 90's Beretta 84F with a Century Import Arms stamp with some holster wear but VG condition and came with two 13 round magazines. He also had a sad looking Argentine HI-Power clone that he was gracious enough to let me do a partial field strip and look at the internals. Every thing inside including the barrel was insanely clean. Appeared to be holster carried a lot and rarely shot. Worked out a combo deal that I was satisfied with and after browsing around headed out. 15 year old grandson knows I'm a fool for old snubbies and pointed out a decently priced 3rd generation Colt Police Positive Detective Special which the vendor had just taken in as a trade. Yup, that also followed me home. For once, in a long time, had a decent day at a gun show and found some fairly good bargains, IMO, on used guns. Crappy cell phone pic.

 

[chicharrones]

Things differ by locale. I moved to Texas from southwest PA a couple of years ago. My observation is that the used market here in TX is far more expensive than PA. I've had a much harder time finding good deals here. So I don't have the impression that "everyday guns" are taking a beating on the local used market ... much to my (buying) regret!

I've rarely seen great deals on used guns in Texas over the last couple decades. I'm sure the deals are out there, but I've not seen them whether in urban or rural areas.

I gave up gun shows several years ago due to prices being nearly the same as local gun shops. Gun shows charge me money to enter and I have to drive further, so no real savings for me. The only advantage in my mind is the quantity of guns available to see in one place compared to just one gun shop.

 

[grampajack]

I've rarely seen great deals on used guns in Texas over the last couple decades. I'm sure the deals are out there, but I've not seen them whether in urban or rural areas.

I gave up gun shows several years ago due to prices being nearly the same as local gun shops. Gun shows charge me money to enter and I have to drive further, so no real savings for me. The only advantage in my mind is the quantity of guns available to see in one place compared to just one gun shop.

After gas, it costs me about 20-30 bucks to go to a gunshow, depending on which one it is, and I've not been impressed with what I saw. IMHO, gunshows are like going to the county fair. You're paying for the sheer spectacle of it. It's very rare that I stumble upon a deal that justifies the entrance fees, time invested, and gas getting there. I just have to accept from the get go that I'm paying for entertainment. However, for the same price, I can go to my local outdoor range down the road and shoot 100 rnds of 9mm. Let's just say I haven't been to a gunshow for a good long while, and don't really plan to start up again. Besides, Armslist is a 24/7 gunshow, admission is free, and I can go in my underwear.

 

[Captcurt]

I've gotten some really killer deals from armslist. I always try to talk to them on the pone before meeting up with them. You can generally get a pretty good feel for people that way. That and meeting them at a gun range makes it pretty safe, probably safer than your average craigslist deal.

Word to the wise, if you're selling on armslist don't say no to people's offers. Just tell them you need time to think about it. If you just say flat no to people some of them will get pissed and flag your listing with a TOR browser just to be vindictive. I can't tell you how many times that has happened to me. Every gun I list for sale I get tons of people wanting to trade me their M&P for my nice 1911 and get butthurt when I say no. Then all of the sudden my listing is flagged, while someone else's listing for a $150 anderson lower is still running for the third straight month in a row. So nowadays I just tell people I have several offers and need time to think about it. Nothing flagged since I adopted that policy.

Warning! If you find a gun on Armslist, never, ever send money without doing your research. I have had 5 or 6 guns that were listed on Gunbroker show up on Armslist. They used my pictures and listing description and had the guns priced about half price for a quick sale. If it sounds too good to be true, RUN!

 

[grampajack]

Warning! If you find a gun on Armslist, never, ever send money without doing your research. I have had 5 or 6 guns that were listed on Gunbroker show up on Armslist. They used my pictures and listing description and had the guns priced about half price for a quick sale. If it sounds too good to be true, RUN!

I keep telling Armslist they need to have profiles and feedback, but I never get a response. They just do their own thing.

 

[Alte Schule]

I've rarely seen great deals on used guns in Texas over the last couple decades. I'm sure the deals are out there, but I've not seen them whether in urban or rural areas.

I gave up gun shows several years ago due to prices being nearly the same as local gun shops. Gun shows charge me money to enter and I have to drive further, so no real savings for me. The only advantage in my mind is the quantity of guns available to see in one place compared to just one gun shop.

Hadn't been to a show in over a year and I would have never gone to this one if I hadn't been passing through the area on the way to visit family. 7$ entry fee & parking was free. Found two vendors that were open to a little negotiation so they got my business. I thought I did pretty good on the combination sale and probably paid $25 to $50 more for the Colt than I should have but I have wanted a Detective Special snub for a looooong time so it was worth it to me and I got to spend the day with my grandson which is always a big plus.

 

[Sav .250]

Different strokes for different folks. My mine set when selling is it`s my weapon and I set the price. A lot to be considered on this issue. If a buyer steps up, fine. The fact that I don`t "need" to sell anything
makes me more of an independent seller. Not motivated by needing money, etc.

 

[sarge83]

The vast majority of my weapons are from the used market. I bought 90% of them from a pawn shop. You just have to gauge the fair market value of the particular piece you are interested in. In my locale in the last 12 months firearms new and used have jumped in price considerable and haven't gone down yet and I have stopped even looking at this point. When prices start going back down I will step back into the market if I see a particular specimen I am interested in. The pawn shop is packed with firearms because they raised their prices to the point they are not moving. Patience in the used firearms market is a virtue.

 

[Shed]

I do almost all of my selling on Armslist, and have found variability on what percentage i recuperate for handguns by brand (big surprise eh?). Up here in Northern New England buy local is a big thing, and I've found that guns manufactured in the region--especially SIGs-- tend to get me higher returns than others.

I have been expecting the price of used polymer pistols to begin to drop off with the introduction of new low cost pistols into the market (CZ-p10c; Walther Creed; Ruger American Pistols have also dropped in price here), the idea being that a guy can get a brand new good gun for not much more than my used Springfield for example; anyone seeing any evidence of this?

 

[Panzerschwein]

If anything, I've made money on the guns I've sold vs bought, at LEAST broke even. I look for bargains and sell for a fair market value. I also do my business online, you can get far better prices both buying and selling online vs brick and mortar stores.

 

[Jim NE]

I'm currently trying to sell a gun on consignment through my LGS. It's a .22 mag revolver that I bought new, but have never shot. Got a real good price when I bought it, and I don't need to make back every cent on it - the buyer would be getting an unfired used gun for much less than a new one - but it's been a hard sell, so far. No real interest, as of yet. It's currently a very soft seller's market, IMO. As an indication of how soft it is, I also offered my LGS an unfired CZ 75 Police, and he declined to take it on consignment due to a perceived lack of interest.

But it's a good time to buy. I recently bought a fairly rare vintage S&W revolver for less than what I would've in a better market. I didn't steal it, but I think it was a decent price for as little fired as it was.

When I was selling guitars for a living, there were price thresholds of sale-abilty and liquidity. Back then, I could sell used Martin guitars (the classic models, I mean...D-18, D-28) for $1000 - $1200 all day long. Even if they weren't spectacular sounding or were from the less desirable eras, they sold at that price. If they were much nicer sounding or limited editions for $1500, however, forget it. Much harder sell...beyond the threshold. If they were from a more desirable era, and priced accordingly, also a harder sell...unless you could tap into the right market.

Liquidity is why I have a general rule of not paying more than $500 for a used handgun. That seems to be a price threshold for many buyers. Sure, I go beyond that amount now and then, but not often, and usually only with a trade. My friend tried to sell his ultra nice competition rifle for $1200. Probably worth it, but it didn't sell. No, I do not see my guns as an investment, but I do see them as a hard asset, so relative liquidity is important.

 

[hdwhit]

Hokkmike wrote:
What is your take on this?

In general, there is a well-considered reason for each gun that I buy. That reason may be a "need" or it may just have been a long-standing "want", but they are not bought on impulse so I rarely find myself wanting to sell them. But if I'm looking for a partiular gun, I have no problem buying it used. And in looking at the used gun market right now, my take on it is that it is still priced for the panic buying of the Clinton and Obama years and reason has yet to prevail.

I expect to see the new gun market experience a decline in sales that will lead to a decline in prices throughout most of 2017 until enough manufacturers shake out to restore an equilibrium. That will put price pressure on that segment of the used gun market dealing with used late-model guns that can be used as a substitute for new. After all, anyone who can pass a background check is going to buy a new AR for $500 rather than pay $500 for a comparable used one. Collectable, historic or niche guns will continue to increase in price as a growing number of customers chase a constantly shrinking supply of guns that are aging and not being made any more.

 

[bassjam]

I rarely buy a gun unless I really want it, and I’ve learned that if I'm patient enough to wait a few months I’ll find what I’m looking for on Armslist for a good price and in great condition. I also have never been in a situation where I needed to sell a firearm for fast cash, which lets me be firm on a price. The only gun I’ve ever lost money on was a modified 10/22 with a lot of aftermarket goodies, but I knew I’d never get back out of it what I had put in it. It still sold for about $150 more than a new 10/22 goes for, so it wasn’t a complete loss. I had grown tired of it anyway and it was collecting dust.

I’ve also gotten good deals from people I know, and I will typically pass those deals along to friends if I ever decide to sell. The full sized .45 USP I bought about 5 years ago for $500 from a guy I knew comes to mind. I ended up selling it a few years later to another buddy for $550 and threw in a box of ammo. It was something he’s always wanted, so I know he wasn’t going to flip it.

In the end, I don't buy and sell guns to make money. I actually very rarely sell them, but if I I try to at least break even.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I have had people look at my guns at a gun show and pull out their phones to check the online prices.

I do this regularly but I have enough tact and respect for the dealer to not do it right in front of his face.
I see what they're selling for, factor in shipping and transfer fees and that gives me a number to shoot for while negotiating.
But its pretty crappy to do it right there I think. And its also unrealistic to think you're going to get it for what the online price is, without figuring in shipping and transfer fees.

 

[grampajack]

I do this regularly but I have enough tact and respect for the dealer to not do it right in front of his face.
I see what they're selling for, factor in shipping and transfer fees and that gives me a number to shoot for while negotiating.
But its pretty crappy to do it right there I think. And its also unrealistic to think you're going to get it for what the online price is, without figuring in shipping and transfer fees.

I get them in on it, show them the listings, that way they know where my math is coming from. I don't think it's tacky at all. If a dealer has a problem with you shopping around then that's a dealer I wouldn't deal with.

 

[Elkins45]

Warning! If you find a gun on Armslist, never, ever send money without doing your research. I have had 5 or 6 guns that were listed on Gunbroker show up on Armslist. They used my pictures and listing description and had the guns priced about half price for a quick sale. If it sounds too good to be true, RUN!

Armslist is for face-to-face transactions ONLY. I would never, ever send money to an Armslist advertiser. There isn't a gun ever produced I want that badly.

 

[Hokkmike]

Of all the firearms I own I believe only five or six were bought NIB. I have a C&R license so used over 50 years is the norm although I do have certain interests, new and used, that I pursue.

Curiously, if you'd care to answer, have you ever been audited?

 

[Tirod]

The last local gun show had S&W 3Gen 9mm's in stock for Gunbroker selling prices. Not very high at all. There are bargains to be found, the trick is - are you buying those guns or looking for something more popular.

A 5906 for $400 or a Detonics Pocket 9mm for $500 seems to be a good example. Both stainless, both 9mm, one a double stack LEO with holster wear, the other a single stack limited production with delayed blowback and heavy for a near pocket pistol gun.

So goes the market now.

The issue with selling guns is that some of us what to sell - now. Not next month or before next hunting season. Our own impatience with finding a buyer is what causes us to trim the price making it much more attractive. And a lot of those deals are FTF cash locally with friends and acquaintances, which is where the fast movers. We don't see those deals reported on a auction site and a lot of times don't post them. What we get is "I sold some guns for the cash to buy this superduper cool gun I wanted this week!"

And for those who rotate the ownership of guns available to them it's gone in six month. Hobby money finances it, that discretionary kind of money we don't try to account for. What's left over after bills and such. For some of us it's a much rarer thing, maybe every two or three years we pick one up, others, every two or three weeks.

I won't likely buy the Smith or Detonics - already have a 4566 and two other pocket guns. I simply don't need another, but I did own a Pocket 9 at one time so there is that "I want one back" thinking. Too expensive now, tho. $500 is too much for a sub compact 9mm, just like $1500 is too much for an HK P7. So we get both sides of the coin - do I sell off half a dozen guns for half price just to sink the money in another, or wise up and let it go?

We see both answers here. What we don't see is what we sold those guns for - like, a first Gen G19 factory comp'ed for $300 with ten ten shot mags to finance a SIG P938. I suspect if we started a thread on "I sold my guns Cheap!" to list them it would go to archives so fast it would make your head spin. Nobody would post.

But it's going on, we just hear about it from the bargain buyers side. Every post commenting on that is a post about a seller letting it go for less than the maximum Gunbroker price that someone else relists 25 times. We just don't talk about it.

 

[Alte Schule]

Curiously, if you'd care to answer, have you ever been audited?

No sir. Hopefully I won't but you never know and I'm prepared if they do. Acquaintance at work has had one for many years and he hasn't. Have been collecting WWII era firearms for several years. The majority prior to applying for the license.so those are exempt from the C&R recording requirements. Right now I'm trying to get a manufacture date on the Argentine/Browning Hi-Power clone I picked up last week. Pretty sure it's 1965 but, either way, I'm going to record it just to be safe.

 

[Legionnaire]

I've been to two gun shows in central TX over the past three months. Both had lots of new guns available at market prices. The used guns were sparse and ridiculously priced; nothing even tempted me.

 

[BearBrimstone]

I mostly buy new, but I also try to buy only at really good prices. If I don't think I can get my money back out of it selling it used I try not to buy unless it is something I really want. I can think of only 2 guns over the last 5 years that I lost money on.

 

[SigsNCigs]

Arms list is like 90% of retail, used. It's a joke really

 

[Alte Schule]

I've been to two gun shows in central TX over the past three months. Both had lots of new guns available at market prices. The used guns were sparse and ridiculously priced; nothing even tempted me.

Over the past several years finding a gun show vendor willing to negotiate on prices has been practically non existent and I make no assumptions going in. The vendor that gave me the combination deal had maybe ten pistols on his table. All were things I'm usually interested in, older model CZ's, Beretta's, Walther's and the like. He also had a few rifles including a really nice M-1 Garand that was bought while I was standing there. When he didn't accept my offer on both pistols I walked away. No problem. He stopped me a half hour later when I was walking by, asked me if I was still interested, and we talked for a few minutes. I have another hobby of buying and selling and trading american sports cars so negotiating a price on something isn't foreign to me and I kind of enjoy it. We went back and forth awhile and then reached a common ground that I thought was more than fair.
The second vendor with the Colt was not so open to negotiation but I wanted the pistol so I stood around and shot the bull for a few minutes seeking an edge and I found it. When I told him where I worked and what county I was from he told me he owned a gun store in a neighboring county and then dropped the price $50. Not really where I wanted to be but I had been looking for that particular model for several years and plus it was a Colt so I went for it.
I know that it's not your (or mine) typical gun show experience but you know sometimes you just get lucky.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Arms list is like 90% of retail, used. It's a joke really

They are most of the time. Some folks don't realize that this is a buyer's market right now.
I did score a decent deal on Armslist just the other day though.

Got a S&W M&P Bodyguard for $200 even. That's roughtly 66% of what it costs new.
Doesn't look like its been shot much so I'm happy.
But it is rare to find someone who is realistic when selling on the online sites.