What kind of lathe would one look for if wanting to install rifle barrels?

[GJgo]

Hey guys,

Let's say I wanted to start reaming, headspacing & installing barrels on rifles. What kind of lathe should I be shopping for? Probably keep an eye out for something on the used market. Heck, I even got the approval of SWMBO!

I have a good feeling that there is a hole in the market in my area for this service & am considering looking into what it takes to do this as a side business. Something like a "hobbyist for hire". Yes, I've searched & read the "I want to be a gunsmith" threads & I get it- I have a business degree & my day job is very mechanically technical (building & tuning very fast cars in a specialty shop) so the work itself would be no problem. Plus, I know a lot of people & this is a very gun-heavy area.

I know I'd have to look into ATF regs, business licensing, insurance, all of this other stuff. I also know that tooling costs a lot. Yes, it's daunting. Realistically I'm not looking to be a full-on gunsmith, just offer rifle re-barreling services & other lathe services, maybe pay for the equipment & make some ammo money at the end of the day. Barrels wear out all the time, including mine!

I do have a world class benchrest rifle builder in my neighborhood, but he doesn't do much else as far as I know. Thought I'd see if he'd be willing to spend some time talking to me. There's other guys around I can talk to as well to see if I'm right about the hole in the market.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[TurtlePhish]

I think this goes without saying, but definitely a lathe with a bed long enough for the barrel. Precise, too. Tenths of thousandths can make a difference with precision shooting.

 

[GJgo]

I did a bunch of Googling & other forum searching, found lots of info & reviews on the Hide, BR central, LR hunting, etc.. What seems a pretty popular unit for what I'm looking to do is this Grizzly G4003G 12x36 lathe. There seem to be a few ChiCom lathes that are all basically the same, interchangable parts, (Shop Fox M1112, Precision Matthews 12x36, Harbor Freight) but at least these guys support the gunsmithing community with lots of parts & have a guy here in the States that handles customer service.

Looks like American made lathes are LOTS more money, can't really be justified for what I'm looking to do. Used American lathes are still pricey & from what I can find pretty well used (worn out) & in need of refurbishing most of the time, not to mention spare parts can be hard to find.

 

[TurtlePhish]

If guys from those forums like it, then it's gotta be pretty darn good for the price. It's awesome that they supply for gunsmiths too. I can't see it being a bad choice.

 

[Jim Watson]

Caution, I am NOT a machinist or gunsmith, but...

Spindle bore on the Grizzly G4003G is listed at 40mm = 1.57"
Looks like that would just barely pass a 1 1/2" blank for threading and chambering.
A Douglas rough blank is 1.2"

 

[Fleet]

Just barely is all it takes.

 

[GJgo]

Thanks Jim,

From what I gathered reading, a 1.25" spindle bore is bare minimum & a 1.5 is preferred so I think I'd be good there. If it wasn't for shrinking spindle size I could probably get away with a shorter bed unit.

On the Grizzly, many guys said they had no issues. Others had some issues but were things that could be resolved such as better bearings, isolating the motor on pads to damp vibration, checking EVERY bolt & screw, and even switching to a 3-phase motor. Then there's the guys that say if it's not American made it isn't worth manure. Given my price range I'm thinking it'd be a good choice, especially since it comes with some smith tooling vs. a more generic unit.

 

[rcmodel]

You won't get away with it very long with less then a 36" bed, and a 48" is better for longer barrels.

Steady rests, live centers, and dial indicator bases take up a lot of bed space if you want to contour a barrel or dial indicate it bore-centered on both ends at mostly the same time.

rc

 

[wdyasq]

Don't forget you will want/need a LOT of tooling and fixtures. I would guess one will spend as much or more on tooling and fixtures than they will on the machine.

It doesen't take too many reamers to eat up a thousand dollars. Yes, I know they can be rented. Certain calibers might be better purchased.

The ability to pass a receiver through the headstock is very nice.

Ron

 

[rcmodel]

When you rent reamers you need to know how to sharpen them, and how many times they have already been sharpened.

rc

 

[GJgo]

More good advice, thanks.

After lots of looking into it the only less expensive unit I found that could still be used for barrel work is the Precision Matthews 1127VF-LB. Once you content up all the tooling & fixtures you'd need to make it comprable to the G4003G though I don't think the savings would be worth it..? There are certainly a lot less guys using this unit compared to Grizzly stuff.

 

[dirtyjim]

the grizzly is actually a decent lathe and already has a rear spider.
the problem with most of the older used american lathes that are a similar size is they usually have a small spindle bore and they will be 220 3 phase so you'll need a vdf box to run them in your garage.
the Precision Matthews 1127VF-LB has to small of a motor and its a 110 volt.

i've done quite a bit of barrel work on my mickey mouse grizzly 9x20. the spindle has been reamed to .8140 and it now has a 2hp dc motor with a 220 volt speed control box.
eventually i'll upgrade to something bigger so i don't have to farm out my big bore barrel projects

 

[Jim K]

Sorry duplicate post deleted.

 

[Jim K]

If possible, find a lathe with a hollow headstock, preferably over 1". It will save you beaucoup man hours in rifle work and in things like crowning barrels.

Jim

 

[Elkins45]

As others have said, spindle bore and bed length are crucial if you're going to be facing, crowning and recontouring barrels.

When I had to face off the chamber of a heavy contour barrel on my 9" South Bend workshop model, I had to spin it in the three jaw chuck with the live center in the chamber. The tail stock was just barely hanging on the bed, and I had to shave a tiny bit of a groove in the center in order to make sure it was faced all the way to the chamber edge. A lathe with a 1" spindle bore would have that a much easier job to do accurately.

 

[rondog]

Um, not trying to be a smart-aleck, but have you ever operated a metal lathe? Any experience with them? You can't just buy one and "poof", you're a machinist now. Dangerous and tricky machines to operate, takes years to get good with one. I know, I was a machinist for many, many years, and there's no way I'd work on guns unless the machine was right and I'd gotten in a LOT of practice. You ain't crashed NOTHING until you crash a lathe!

 

[dsink]

Everyone has hit on good points. One thing that I will add is, for what your wanting to do you will also need a good Milling machine. You will not be able to do what you want without one.
I know everyone wants to buy a lathe and start rebarreling rifles but when you do that you open the door to alot of other stuff and if you want to be sucesful it will take a lathe, mill, surface grinder and ALOT of tooling just to rebarrel a rifle.

Renting reamers is fine but I would only do it for my personal stuff. If its for a customers rifle then I prefer to buy the reamer from PTG. I can call Dave and tell him exactly what I want. The reamer is mine and I know how it has been treated. When you rent one you have no idea if its going to be dull or what the reamer specs are. If im doing it for a customer, I diffently do not what to take a chance on the reamer, I want to make sure I am giving my customer there moneys worth.

If you go thru with it, I wish you luck. The quickest way to make a million dollars though is to start gunsmithing and building rifles with 2 million in your pocket. When your done, you will have a million in your poket LOL.

 

[GJgo]

The Griz unit I've been looking at has a 40mm hollow bore through the headstock, so I think it'll be good in terms of crowning barreled actions-according to their manual as long as the barrel is at least 23". If shorter you'd have to unscrew the tube.

I definitely don't have any visions of making significant money this way, in the long run possibly just enough to support the hobby & pay for what goes along with it- tooling, licensing etc.. I know I won't have any trouble with the learning or the technical aspects of it, that stuff is easy for me. I'll just need to work on the experience learned from mentoring with experienced guys & making chips myself along with making mistakes.

If I do choose to do this, it is a long-term goal, but hey you've gotta start somewhere.